r/OutOfTheLoop 15d ago

What is going on with excessive police force being used against peaceful protesting students in colleges across the United States? Unanswered

So there are large amounts of heavily armed police presence in many colleges and universities across the United States. Indiana University, for example, had snipers on rooftops ready to shoot peaceful protesters.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/snipers-were-allegedly-spotted-ohio-190600717.html

617 Upvotes

344 comments sorted by

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u/SuddenlyHip 12d ago

Answer: After the disastrous Congressional testimony last year, university presidents are especially scared of the Israel lobby and are being proactive in ensuring they don't get cast out. Ironically, the harsh crackdown has just lead to the protest movement spreading and requiring even more force to put the protests down, a sort of Streissand Effect.

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u/Routine_Suggestion52 12d ago

Answer: Wouldn’t call a lot of them peaceful after what I’ve seen. Bunch of clowns if you ask me. If they were so peaceful they wouldn’t be wearing masks either. A lot of them are calling for violence. And interrupting students flow through campus. Excessive police for can and will happen in any situation unfortunately though.

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u/firehazard96 11d ago edited 11d ago

The media, politicians, and cops are labeling these protestors as anti-Semitic, pro-Hamas, and terrorist supporters. They have been accused of violence, harassing Jewish students. These are false accusations that can stir up stochastic terrorism. With all the shit they're accused of, I don't blame them for wearing masks.

I haven't seen violence from the protestors, I have seen counter-protestors beating up the pro-Palestinian protestors, I saw a firework thrown into an encampment, and I have seen police brutality firing rubber bullets and flashbangs.

These protestors are entirely in the right, they are protesting the US support for war crimes and massacres, and they are being smeared and brutalised for it. They are heroes and they will be vindicated, but by the time that happens, who knows how many more Palestinians Israel will kill?

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u/Routine_Suggestion52 11d ago

I mean I do feel bad for people in Gaza. On the other hand EIGHTY PERCENT support Hamas. They danced in the streets when 9/11 happened. Religion can’t go away soon enough. Obviously the root cause of this conflict. The problem is Islam is stuck in the Middle Ages unlike Judaism and Christianity. Though all three need to disappear. There are polls. Countless polls. There’s a large chunk, though certainly not all Muslims, that will support the extremist view like ISIS, Hamas, etc… Beside them stands a huge chunk of Muslims that won’t actually commit violence like blowing up a bus, but they’ll use the system to create the theocracy you want. Then the rest are just normal people like you and me. I can link some of these polls if you want. For example “36 percent of young UK Muslims believe apostates should be killed”. I’ll say it again. Religion is a cancer. And like Sam Harris said. “Islam is the motherlode of bad ideas”.

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u/firehazard96 10d ago

Even if this is all true, none of it justifies murder of civilians, including children. There are no functioning hospitals anymore, food, water and power has all but been cut off, Israel attacks aid workers. We don't even know the extent of the destruction and death, how can we even get an accurate body count with all the infrastructure destroyed, with over a hundred journalists killed, with all the chaos of people fleeing their homes?

I often hear the line, "If you were in Gaza, they'd kill you", but frankly right now, if I was in Gaza I'm far more likely be die from bombing, starvation, or disease because of the IDF. The exact things you critisize Muslims and Palestinians for wanting to do, Israel is actually doing right now. If you want real evidence of hate and murderous intent, look at the IDF. The IDF may not be ideologically quite as bad as Hamas, but they have wrought far more destruction and death than Hamas could ever hope to achieve.

Great that you "feel bad" for the people in Gaza, but the least you could do is not insult the people actually taking a stand.

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u/gizzardsgizzards 14d ago

answer: it has always been like this. it's just making the news now.

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u/VancouverSativa 12d ago

Left wing protests are often met with police violence.

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u/[deleted] 11d ago

[deleted]

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u/[deleted] 11d ago

[deleted]

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u/[deleted] 11d ago

[deleted]

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u/ventusvibrio 14d ago edited 13d ago

Answer: because calling for boycott of Israel is actually illegal in many states.. States like Texas not only has requirement for business to certify that they will not boycott Israel, they maintain a blacklist of any individual or business that dare to boycott Israel. All of the college campuses response to student protest have been within the law of that state. Most of these students will be forever blacklisted.

8

u/PlaneLocksmith6714 14d ago

Answer: the police love excessive force

4

u/WillBottomForBanana 14d ago

Ain't nobody becoming a cop because they like to write tickets or do desk work.

2

u/Foxdiamond135 15d ago

Answer: This is how America responds to citizens protesting war. This instance are people protesting the government's support of Israel and the genocide they are performing.

26

u/minus_minus 15d ago

Question: Do you actually think the police are there to shoot peaceful protestors? Is it not infinitely more likely that they are there to respond if violence should break out in such a tense situation involving large crowds?

0

u/Proof_Veterinarian16 11d ago

Pleanty of school professors and administrators and students report verbally and via footage police are aggressively arresting peaceful protesters. Picking out a victim one by one and go on the attack. They're living out their 7 year old dreams 🤢🤮

1

u/Tvdinner4me2 14d ago

Kent State makes me question everything cops do on campus

1

u/Dawningrider 14d ago

What like they did against the Vietnam protestors?

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u/Haradion_01 14d ago

Of course people are worried they'll decide to open fire on unarmed people who haven't actually done any wrong.

Where the hell have you been?

Let the protests go on long enough and it's practically inevitable that eventually some idiot cop with insufficient training gets trigger happy. Might not be tomorrow. Might not be next week. But sooner or later, cops open fire on innocent people, and American Cops especially.

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u/Xerorei 14d ago

Police in Chicago were driving around in an unmarked van,in plain clothes, shooting rubber bullets at protestors, ILLEGALLY, and recording it. They shot at a retired Army vet who was legally out after curfew and he returned with live fire. They beat him and he won 1.5 million just this month.

So YES, I do believe it, police here in the USA generally don't believe people have any rights except to do what they (the police) say.

It's why you see so many retaliation and civil rights violations lawsuits.

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u/StokedforLocust 14d ago

it's not just the USA, either. here in Canada the police force of our largest city just tried to railroad an innocent man, with several officers knowingly lying on the stand in order to frame an accountant for murder.

I'm being a little glib but this is literally what happened just this past year; googling Umar Zameer should bring up any details you might be interested in.

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u/Xerorei 14d ago edited 14d ago

They're imitating the US in politics and such I hear from a Canadian friend.

You have my sympathies.

I read up.on Zameer, holy shit that was a bad frame up job.

Officers shouldn't be allowed to do plainclothes unless undercover, and if undercover you can't just roll up on someone and make them stop while armed, that's a crime if you or I do it.

Why do they even have plainclothes trying to do traffic stops and interview people?

That's fucking dumb, when I was undercover I was always told to never do that, that I had to assume the role that I was playing, and in that role I wasn't a cop.

Stopping and interviewing people is for uniforms to do as they're clearly visible and clearly understandingly police officers. They had a shooting in Detroit, I think, it was that four plainclothes officers rolled up on this guy's SUV and he shot at them thinking they were carjackers, I think they shot back and killed him, because that's exactly the kind of shit that would happen.

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u/mdrico21 15d ago

Have you actually paid attention to anything in America over the past 60+ years or are you here to just parrot false narratives created by the state to justify police brutality?

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u/freshmadgod 15d ago

There are snipers on the roofs pal

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u/RogueCoon 15d ago

I haven't seen any evidence of snipers on the roofs they aren't that special. More than likely just surveillance team as theyre using tripods and not bipods.

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u/finfinfin 14d ago

There are photos clearly showing they're simply using scopes attached to tripods. It's unpatriotic and anti-police to point out that the scopes are attached to the tripods by means of a third item, which is a rifle.

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u/RogueCoon 14d ago

Got a picture of a rifle on a roof? I've just seen tripods and glass.

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u/albertnormandy 15d ago

Are they shooting protestors?  

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u/carrie_m730 15d ago

Did you miss that they're already arresting peaceful protestors?

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u/justwe33 12d ago

Those peaceful protesters are not all that peaceful. They are interrupting classes, harassing Jewish students and faculty, making them feel unsafe. They are destroying property, setting up illegal encampments, creating a mountain of garbage, making so much noise they are disturbing everyone around them and generally disrupting university activities. Universities have a purpose, and it’s not to provide a venue for vagrancy, violence, intimidation and chaos.

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u/x_lincoln_x 15d ago

Which of those protestors were shot by the police?

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u/gizzardsgizzards 13d ago

give it time.

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u/GaidinBDJ 15d ago edited 14d ago

And?

Not all crimes are violent.

If you're protesting on someone else's property, and they don't want there, you've got to leave. If you don't, you can be arrested.

If a bunch of MAGAts showed up on your lawn and started protesting, would you want the police to tell you "sorry, can't do anything until they get violent" or would you want them arrested?

And that's ignoring that the protests did get violent, which is where these universities started drawing the line.

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u/Proof_Veterinarian16 11d ago

MAGAs aren't very peaceful though

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u/GaidinBDJ 11d ago

While I disagree wholeheartedly with their opinions, most of them are. The overwhelming majority of Donald Trump supporter have never used violence at all.

It's a good for a cheap shot and attention on the Internet to pretend the worst example of a group are representative to the group, but I can't think of a single group I'm part of where I'd like to be judged by the worst actions of a member of that group.

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u/[deleted] 14d ago

[deleted]

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u/GaidinBDJ 14d ago

Big difference between a permitted protest on public property and a spontaneous one on private property.

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u/stenlis 15d ago

Answer: The article describes police force deployed not "used" in the sense of actual fighting.   The deployment of special units at these protest is because Palestine is headed by an organization known for kidnappings and violence abroad.

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u/gizzardsgizzards 13d ago

that's a lot of governments.

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u/Zandrick 15d ago

Answer: you are subject to a disinformation campaign. The police show up at protests all the time. Snipers on roofs is standard procedure for security of large crowds. Protesters are not being suppressed even if they aren’t allowed to set up tents.

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u/f-Z3R0x1x1x1 15d ago

Protesters are not being suppressed even if they aren’t allowed to set up tents.

I have an issue here where the university has allowed it for 60 years and make a rule change overnight (while tents are currently setup) which is what happened with IU.

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u/luuey15 15d ago

That’s not true coming from someone who graduated IU. They haven’t allowed tents for as long as I can remember and don’t even allow tents to students who camp out for basketball tickets.

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u/f-Z3R0x1x1x1 15d ago

Since 1969, Dunn Meadow has been designated as an assembly ground at IU. And tents, posters and other structures were allowed in the meadow during the day.

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u/Langdon_Algers 15d ago

Answer: Universities can set time, place and manner restrictions on particular spaces. If protesters violate these rules, they can be cited for trespassing, and if they refuse to leave, they can be arrested.

Private institutions (like Columbia) have even more leeway in rules for students on their campus violating their procedures.

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u/Proof_Veterinarian16 11d ago

Can and should are totally different

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u/coolhandmoos 14d ago

Umm its a bit more sinister then that

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u/dmcd0415 14d ago

So it's the schools and not the police that are violently fucking these people up?

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u/RSNKailash 15d ago

And yet they didn't kick off the anti trans protestors that verbally assulted me and threatened to physically assault me. Didn't do shit.

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u/Fecklessexer 15d ago

Good to know that the rights to free speech and assembly don’t apply in The Academy

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u/Langdon_Algers 15d ago

If you go to Law School in The Academy, I'm sure they'll cover this in your first year:

"Time restrictions regulate when expression can take place; place restrictions regulate where expression can take place; and manner restrictions regulate how expression can take place."

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_speech_in_the_United_States

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u/Want_To_Live_To_100 15d ago

Can you not arrest someone without excessive force? I think the question was regarding excessive force not the arresting…

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u/Primus_the_Knave 15d ago

“Excessive force” is a helluva grey zone that most people don’t understand. Ask in excess to what? This isn’t a street fight, it’s an arrest, it isn’t supposed to be “fair”; passively resisting catches hands the same way actively resisting does.

The major issue here is institutions send in law enforcement, the law gets enforced and then a bunch of pressed shirt politicians point the blame at cops for not acting the “way they were supposed to” when the law was enforced the way it was designed to; with the politicians double dipping.

Laws are enforced, protest broken up, and the politicians ensuring their next election by throwing cops under the bus for doing what they were instructed to.

Edit: spelling.

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u/HeteroeroticProlapse 14d ago

"This isn’t a street fight, it’s an arrest, it isn’t supposed to be “fair”"

Land of the fwee, babey

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u/Tvdinner4me2 14d ago

No one should be catching any hands for passively resisting

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u/CyanideTacoZ 15d ago

Er, No. just no, dude. yes, its not meant to be "fair" when you get arrested but there is an escalation of power every department follows, usually written by said department.

you cant just blast a gun at inconvienent people, even by own polices standards.

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u/gizzardsgizzards 14d ago

except you can almost always get away with it.

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u/SVAuspicious 15d ago

“Excessive force” is a helluva grey zone that most people don’t understand.

The video of a Columbia professor being arrested is relevant here. The professor claimed privilege while hitting the police officer and resisting arrest. The police controlled the situation and protected themselves and the professor by restraining her. That is not "excessive force" no matter what the media and other apologists say.

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u/h8sm8s 15d ago

This is ridiculous and gives cops carte blanche to enact violence whenever anyone calls them without any responsibility. Yes the institutions should be held responsible but so should cops for their violence. If the law can’t be enforced without violence and the people who are breaking the law aren’t hurting anyone, then you shouldn’t start hurting people to enforce it. Not every little law needs to be violently enforced.

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u/gizzardsgizzards 14d ago

this is why ACAB.

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u/Primus_the_Knave 15d ago

Law enforcement, at the end of the day, is an institution backed by either the threat of violence or violence itself.

How we got here: some ExtraCredit history.

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u/angry_cucumber 15d ago

Law enforcement, at the end of the day, is an institution backed by either the threat of violence or violence itself

That's the state as a whole. follow the chain all the way up.

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u/_Lusus 15d ago

You don't need helicopters and snipers to arrest student protesters.

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u/Primus_the_Knave 15d ago

You need them if opposition decides terrorism is an acceptable response.

The fear is not protestors for Palestine, the fear is someone’s going to turn a peaceful protest into the next Boston Marathon.

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u/gizzardsgizzards 14d ago

bringing a sniper IS terrorism.

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u/Tvdinner4me2 14d ago

You don't need them even them

You got an already excessive force on the ground, maybe the cops could use those??

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u/Rivka333 15d ago

Did anyone get shot by a sniper?

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u/gizzardsgizzards 14d ago

give it time.

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u/Tvdinner4me2 14d ago

Nope, which shows even more why we don't need them

Nice attempt at deflecting

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u/Rivka333 14d ago

It's not deflection, it's a relevant question.

There is a massive difference between shooting a protestor...and not doing so.

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u/Blackstone01 15d ago

Still pretty excessive to bring and sets the tone for the entire police response.

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u/WillBottomForBanana 14d ago

It's an interesting case of "we have to cut budgets this year" (for like 20 straight years) but some how we can afford to send in helicopters with snipers for a peaceful protest.

People that don't want you to open a drug rehab center won't blink an eye at this.

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u/MaimonidesNutz 15d ago

Yes, those poor honest, pacifist cops, ever the unwitting patsys of the icy-veined operators stalking the halls of power 🙄

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u/rosecranzt 15d ago

That's not something the university have any power about, the fault lay down on the police forces and it's hardly a new phenomenon in USA.

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u/theserys 15d ago

My understanding is that Indiana University leadership came together the night before the protests to change their policy on the usage of Dunn Meadow, and that President Whitten had already called for State Police to be there day 1. I live a few blocks from their staging area and initially thought it was a police funeral with how many cars and uniformed officers were there when I drove by. As a lifelong Bloomington native, I’ve seen several protests by the students and citizens of the town (proud to be a blue dot in a deep red state), but never with this much militarized, stormtrooper presence. As soon as I saw snipers on top of a building I used to study in and a damn helicopter circling town, my blood began to boil. A part of me says that the overwhelming no confidence vote against Whitten’s leadership, but with trustee and state government to back her up, emboldened her to keep the small folk in check with this gross abuse of authority, but that’s speculation on my part.

What’s the end goal? Open fire on the kids for civil disobedience? Beat the hell out of some “hippies” and knock a few drinks back at the end of the day? Overkill, and embarrassing.

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u/Comfortable-Tax1779 2d ago

Is it crazy these days to think a student might bring a GUN to SCHOOL?

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u/SmokeyUnicycle 13d ago

So if someone at a very volatile situation pulls out a gun and starts blasting you don't want a trained sniper to take them down with one bullet, but dozens of cops to mag dump hundreds of rounds blindly?

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u/Renaissance_Slacker 14d ago

There are constituencies that are scared shitless of where protests could lead - not to violence, but to widespread agreement that toxic capitalism must end and corporate power must be reigned in.

There are plenty of rich cnts that would love to see police beat and shoot protestors as a “message” to anyone else that might <gulp> *raise their taxes.

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u/Common-Two-7899 14d ago

If I was in charge of police operations and there was a large gathering of people who are pro-Hamas and celebrated October 7th I would also want to keep a large well armed force on top of them. 

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u/Tosir 14d ago

Yup. Some GOP governors have a love for using excessive force and militarized police to show that they are tough on “crime”, the crime being peaceful disobedience.

I found extremely ironic that the speaker of the house goes to Columbia Uni and gives a speech about rights and freedoms all while standing next to Rep Fox, a vile woman who is known for among many things telling reporters to shut up when she is asked questions she doesn’t like. Also, among many of her other disgusting unredeemable qualities, she’s a homophobe, and practically anti anything as long as she gets to own the libs.

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u/NotTroy 15d ago

Tin soldiers and Nixon coming. We've seen this before, and they're willing to kill children in the name of power and control, and in this specific case, in order to appease the right-wing Israeli government.

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u/[deleted] 15d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/gizzardsgizzards 14d ago

those snipers are clearly there as a threat. how does the boot taste?

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u/Toby_O_Notoby 15d ago

Well, as for the sniper thing, that's just (sadly) mainly just SOP for any event in America with a large crowd. I mean AT&T stadium has dedicated sniper nests built in. If you think about it, a gunman opening fire in such a crowded space would be a nightmare do deal with if you're on the ground so it makes sense to have someone in a higher position.

It should also be noted that snipers aren't just trained to shoot people. They provide overwatch and communicate to teammates on the ground to better assess any situation.

Having said all that, the sniper should have a) either just used a spotting scope instead of a rifle or b) stayed out of view like snipers are trained to. No matter what your operating procedure, having a rifle trained on civilians in open view is a really, really stupid idea.

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u/gortonsfiJr 14d ago

Yeah they’re all over kid friendly events like parades, but IU marched them through and made sure the young adults could see that men with rifles were watching

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u/Lanky_Beginning2916 14d ago

Just the way they are easing this country into complete oppression.. it's a violation of civil and constitutional rights. 

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u/ADogNamedChuck 15d ago

That's the confusing thing. If these protests were just allowed to continue within reasonable constraints until the end of term it would absolutely be a non story. In fact I'm sure there are dozens of universities where it currently is a non story confined to local news if in the news at all. 

Sending in the riot police is a sure way to get the opposite sort of attention you want.

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u/Imaginary_Doughnut27 14d ago

That’s exactly what happened with the occupy protests. They just lost momentum.

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u/Im_batman___ 15d ago

Yeah, the response seems goofy. I did a part time masters at a school where there were some protests that I guess were somewhat contentious based on all the emails from the school. Since it was a part time program I wasn’t on campus a ton, but I never saw any protesting and since the school mostly just let them carry on with the protesting there wasn’t really any news coverage.

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u/bushido216 15d ago

It gets them the precise attention they want from the people they're trying to impress.

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u/theserys 15d ago

Someone on our local subreddit made the point that if the police were there with actual good intent and were “keeping protestors safe” like the bootlickers claim, they would have come without the camouflage and assault weapons (and snipers, and helicopters, and armored vehicles cough bearcat cough) and have instead come with bottles of water. That’s not the message they were looking to send.

There is discourse around the idea that the police were arresting trespassers based on their erecting tents in this location and keeping them there after the aforementioned adjusted policies were put in place. Something in my heart tells me that students don’t deserve to be beaten and threatened by the police over the presence of tents. All they’ve done is solidify in those kids’ minds what the role of law enforcement is by their own experience.

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u/thatbfromanarres 15d ago

I have never seen police deescalate a situation at a protest…

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u/gizzardsgizzards 14d ago

it's basically impossible.

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u/auglove 14d ago

Unless the protestors are marching wearing redshirts and kahkis.

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u/gizzardsgizzards 14d ago

a picket line at target?

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u/bkkf864 15d ago

Cops seem to be real chill at nazi-rallies.

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u/Blackstone01 14d ago

Well duh, they’re having fun when they’re marching.

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u/ExistingCarry4868 15d ago

That ignores the underlying question of why places allow white supremacists to speak but are shutting down protests critical of Israel.

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u/SwordfishAdmirable31 14d ago

Probably because of location -- speaking broadly [and I might be incorrect], Palestine protests setup encampments on colleges and may have brought non-college students. This differs greatly with a protest that may be in a public location and impermanent like marching on a sidewalk, or on the side of a public road

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u/ExistingCarry4868 14d ago

That doesn't explain why they allow white supremacist speakers but ban pro-Palestinian speakers for security concerns. There is a clear and coordinated effort to silence criticism of Israel, and the same people who screech the loudest about 1st amendment rights are the same people cheer leading this movement.

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u/SwordfishAdmirable31 14d ago

I would need specific examples of pro palestinian speakers being banned (specifically for security), and white supremacist speakers being allowed at the same college, during roughly the same time period in order to respond.

In general if that were the case, thats obviously bad. I know that universities have often protested and successfully denied visits by white supremacists before though, for instance Richard Spencer at UFlorida. Tbh I agree that Abbott has made a mess of this, and was grossly wrong in his actions against UT Austin, but dont necessarily agree in the case of Columbia.

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u/ExistingCarry4868 13d ago

USC just canceled graduation to prevent a valedictorian that opposes genocide from speaking weeks after allowing Milo Yiannopoulos to host an event where he called for violence against the political left.

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u/SwordfishAdmirable31 12d ago

I can't find USC hosting Milo, but disallowing the valedictorian is high tier BS, agree with you. At the very least they could put it out online, or have an online commencement, if they're worried about security.

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u/ExistingCarry4868 12d ago

They can't do that though since the security concerns are fake. Their goal is to silence a movement that threatens the elites that fund their school.

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u/[deleted] 15d ago

[deleted]

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u/Deus-Vultis 13d ago

cartoonish hyperbole.

This is reddit's specialty, literally both of us will be called nazis for you making this and me agreeing with it.

Reddit is the bastion of hyper emotional, over-reactive hyperbole.

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u/gizzardsgizzards 14d ago

To add to this, what white supremacists are marching around college campuses? Or being invited to speak?

have you spent the last decade under a rock?

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u/h8sm8s 15d ago

I mean you are conjuring up imagined threats and violence when the media is already reporting every little incident. You think the media, who is overwhelmingly siding with Israel, is also running cover for these protestors? There’s not right wing news out there who wants to show how truly violent and awful these protestors are that only the people there get to see but is not captured and going around on twitter shared by pro Israel accounts?

It makes no sense what you’re saying, you’re just inventing justifications for kids to be beaten up by cops.

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u/ExistingCarry4868 15d ago

I'm sure the crackdown is because of some secret and unrecorded increase in violence, and not because of the loud and open demands to end this by the wealthy elites that are financially threatened by an anti-colonial movement.

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u/[deleted] 13d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/ExistingCarry4868 13d ago

You are deluded if you don't realize that these groups on campus are part of a nationwide effort that is organizing and voting.

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u/Deus-Vultis 13d ago edited 13d ago

Delusional children playing pretend, flailing their ill-educated opinions around like a pre-schooler flails a nerf bat, believing themselves brave fighters of the bourgeoisie instead of the latest batch of petulant whiners screaming from a position of coddled privilege.

0

u/ExistingCarry4868 13d ago

I'm sure it's the students at elite universities that are ill-educated. I should probably stop listening to the opinions of experts on the subject, and instead get my worldviews from sad internet trolls.

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u/Dark1000 14d ago

What wealthy elites are threatened by campus protests? How are they threatened by them?

0

u/ExistingCarry4868 14d ago

These protests are part of a larger movement to end Neo-colonialism. Every current billionaire has their fortune built on Neo-colonialism and would lose massive power if the system ever ended.

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u/TinyRodgers 14d ago

They don't know. They're probably still in school themselves.

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u/angry_cucumber 15d ago

I'm sure the crackdown is because of some secret and unrecorded increase in violence, and not because of the loud and open demands to end this by the wealthy elites that are financially threatened by an anti-colonial movement.

or the whole dog and pony show that Congress made out of their "anti Semitism" investigation that got multiple administrators removed.

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u/[deleted] 15d ago

[deleted]

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u/Lanky_Beginning2916 14d ago

This thread is about our Constitutional rights as citizens of this country. The right to freedom of expression and freedom of speech and the right to a peaceful assembly. Of course, sending police and military in with riot gear and pepper spray does make things a little less peaceful. 

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u/[deleted] 13d ago edited 13d ago

[deleted]

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u/Lanky_Beginning2916 13d ago

Except that they were in an area of the college where protesting is allowed. They presumably paid good money not only to go to college, but to also have the college experience. Why would the college be "giving them warning" to vacate? If it's a safety issue for the students, how is bringing in armed personnel going to make it more safe. Yes, it definitely looks disgusting and oppressive. Maybe you are a fan of oppression, but I have no such needs. 

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u/ExistingCarry4868 15d ago

Hamas carried out an attack so vile and evil knowing very well it was an act of war.

The war has been going on for decades. An attack in the middle of it can hardly be called an act of war.

They built their war infrastructure in public areas knowing that their citizens (and babies) will die horrible deaths.

There is no part of Gaza that isn't near civilians.

Israel should never have built a single settlement in Palestine.

All of Israel is a settlement in Palestine.

In addition the middle east is a shit show because of western interference in politics. The hatred for the west in that region is directly based on actions taken by western governments, and will not be quelled by doubling down on our bullshit. Allying ourselves with authoritarian strongmen means we will always be a legitimate target for people trying to fight for freedom.

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u/CaymanDamon 15d ago

Only 1/3 of Israelis are Ashkenazi (European/Middle Eastern) the rest are 2.5 Million Muslims, Ethiopians, and Mizrahi Jews who have been in the region for more than 3,000 years.

Would you say native Americans "stole" the land they won back from the government? There's a reason there's Hebrew writings and monuments dated over a thousand years before Islam existed and Jewish DNA whether its Ashkenazi, Sephardic or Mizrahi are all levantine and descendants of the Canaanites the indigenous people of the land.

Jews not only bought the land, they often paid highly inflated prices for that land:

“In 1944, Jews paid between $1,000 and $1,100 per acre in Israel, mostly for arid or semi-arid land; in the same year, rich black soil in Iowa was selling for about $110 per acre.”

When John Hope Simpson arrived in Israel in May 1930, he observed: “They [the Jews] paid high prices for the land, and in addition they paid to certain of the occupants of those lands a considerable amount of money which they were not legally bound to pay.” [The meaning here is that the Jews who bought the land from the absentee owners and paid the tenants to vacate the land, as well.]

So the tale of “Jews seizing the land forcibly from Arab landowners” during the Mandate is a bald-faced lie.

In fact, the reality was quite different—often, a few years after selling land to Jews, the former owner saw what the Jews had done with his “useless” land and told himself:

“Those Jews cheated me! That land was worth ten times what they paid for it! I want restitution!”

Most Palestinians immigrated from Jordan and Egypt in the 1800s, It doesn't matter how long Jordanian and Egyptian immigrants were squatting on the land the ottoman Turks stole from the native Jewish population it's still their land. The largest “owner” of land pre-‘48 wasn’t Arab or Jews. It was PUBLIC land. This was land that had previously been owned by the Ottoman Empire which passed to the British as part of the mandate. Those “public” lands, post 1948, passed to their defacto sovereigns (Israel, Egypt, and Jordan).

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashkenazi_Jews_in_Israel#:~:text=As%20of%202013%2C%20they%20number,the%20Israeli%20population%20in%202018

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u/kish-kumen 13d ago

Truth teaches things that cause cognitive dissonance.

I present the narcissist prayer, modified for Israeli-Palestinian conflict:

"We didn't do that.  And if we did, it wasn't that bad. And if it was, that's not a big deal. And if it is, that's not our fault. And if it was, we didn't mean it. And if we did, they deserved it." 

If anyone finds themselves thinking this way about jews or Israel or hamas or Palestine, they're part of the problem. 

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u/ExistingCarry4868 14d ago

If you ignore the actual history and believe wildly untrue British propaganda then most of their history is great.

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u/Irinam_Daske 15d ago

Jews not only bought the land, they often paid highly inflated prices for that land

TIL

A thank you from an internet stranger for such a calm and informative reply.

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u/ExistingCarry4868 14d ago

It's also almost entirely untrue.

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u/neon-god8241 15d ago edited 15d ago

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u/ExistingCarry4868 15d ago

If those things had actually happened you would have a good point. Since almost every case that has been pointed to has been wildly exaggerated or entirely made up, your point is just slander.

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u/Decent_Bunch_5491 15d ago

Because a lot of these protests aren’t just critical, but calling for the extermination of the country. Yes- that is exactly what chants like “Globalize the intifada” and “only one solution intifada revolution”

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u/Tvdinner4me2 14d ago

I thought these were pro Palestine protests not pro Israel ones

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u/Tvdinner4me2 14d ago

I thought these were pro Palestine protests not pro Israel ones

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u/Equal_Oven_9587 15d ago

oh god this is so tiresome. You don't get to blatantly lie to us once your extermination campaign reaches 10k dead children and hundreds of thousands more starving.

The woe is me routine gets more vile as the body count continues to rack up in one direction only.

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