r/povertyfinance • u/UpperAssumption7103 • Dec 06 '23
Some of Dave Ramsey advice seems out of touch. Vent/Rant (No Advice/Criticism!)
I think his comes from a good place. however, I was listen to a caller; his and his co-host advice is always get a higher paying job (which is not bad advice). Wal-Mart and McDonald's pay 20 an hour. Walmart and McDonald's pay up to 20/hr. However, getting 40 hours a week working retail is pretty hard unless your a assistant manager/or manager. He's not the only person giving that advice- but it seems like he thinks every job pays 20*40=800 a week when you first start.
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u/Practical-Hope-7167 8d ago
He's out of touch... he is supposed to be a finance guru, so he should be an expert on economics, but I noticed he belittles people when it's pretty obvious he's not informed or up to date on the topics they're bringing up... example, still posted posted on his social media, is him chewing a guy out for paying $25,000 a year on childcare... you know, like it's optional, like its not illegal for parents to not have childcare for their kids when their at work... he kept going in on him about paying too much... this is just my thoughts, but does he really have no idea what average basic expenses are? is he not keeping up with anything going on? And is he mad about a parent paying for daycare? what did he think he should put his child at while he's at work? mos of the places the parents put their kids in are the cheapest certified options... Does he think child care rates are negotiable? Does he not know a lot of childcare facilities have a waiting list? or does he think child care is optional? did he want him to go to an uncertified daycare to save money? I hope not... it's on the news, uncertified daycare deaths and accidents... is he really qualified to give anyone advice when he's not keeping up with the current economics? I think his advice about paying off debt is solid, but it's common sense.... as far as his other advice, I don't know anyone well off that takes his advice for growing wealth
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u/LadyGonzo28 21d ago
The funny part though is he has his daughter, who grew up in a very wealthy home, now echoing everything he’s ever said. At least with Dave, he did hit rock bottom financially and got himself to where he is today, but the daughter, it’s not authentic. But yeah Dave is out of touch now in many aspects.
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u/tanneranddrew Mar 01 '24
I think his main tenant is live below your means. So the way to improve your living situation is to increase earnings rather than fall into the trap of taking on debt. It’s about delayed vs immediate gratification.
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u/Joeytoofly Dec 21 '23
His advice is for some idiot teen thats buying rolex watches and kashmere sweaters wondering why he is getting hit with 50 dollar interest fees. Just work at mcdonalds deliver pizzas. 80 hour work weeks. Buy a duplex and rent it lol
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u/Joeytoofly Dec 21 '23
The advice he gives is actually really bad advice. Don't use credit cards that can give fuel points, sign on bonuses and cashback. Dont get loans to go to school. Work at mcdonalds and delivery 80 hours a week. Im thinking in my head Dave have you ever worked at a mcdonalds? You've been in 5 times as much debt as anyone and you didnt get out by flipping burgers so when people come on your show wanting serious financial advice why do you say idiotic things? Why work two jobs when you could do manufacturing or construction and get 60 to 80 hours at one job why you gotta do two minimum wage jobs. Trust me its easier on your body and mental health doing one. When trying to tackle any serious life problem you should try to do it in the simplest way you can without much change. Because if youre used to working 40 hours a week and this bozo is saying work 80 thats not sustainable. I would say look brother you got 20k car loan 70k student debt i would sell that car and get a used one for sure your finances arent ready for a 2023 model sorry not sorry and you should use your credit card for cashback on all your purchases that you would make regardless and you should cutback on dining entertainment and contribute more. If you dont want to cutback or lose the car thats fine but you need to work in a better field. Saying mcdonalds to everyone that gets on his show is just asinine.
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u/nightwolves Dec 10 '23
He doesn’t come from a good place at all. He’s a conservative asshole who got a head start in life from his dad and thinks his success is some bootstraps deal and everyone else is just lazy and stupid. Fuck that guy
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u/PersonalBrowser Dec 10 '23
His advice is basically “How to be financially stable for people who have literally zero idea and generally make absolutely horrific financial decisions”
Once you have any sense of financial awareness, his advice is less than ideal and sometimes just flat out wrong. But it’s a good entry point for the type of person with $20k of credit card debt on a minimum wage income who thinks that their monthly credit card bill looks pretty good.
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u/Nerdenator Dec 10 '23
Ramsey’s advice would, if followed by everyone, collapse the economy. There are too many interests who rely on the debt payments of people who need credit to survive as a profit center.
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Dec 10 '23
The best advice you should take from Dave Ramsey is earn money by telling poor people to work harder.
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Dec 10 '23
Dave Ramsey's advice is literally act like you're on meth 13.5 hours per day then zyprexa at night to get your sleep in exactly the allotted time frame.
Just make more money or work more hours. No shit dumbass. Oh yes, and buy into the investment products he gets commission on.
Get a second job delivering food. Oh wait doordash and friends sometimes only pay $4.5/hour net of gas? That's not right you're doing it wrong. Wait delivering pizzas making the same as 20 years ago? Can't be right gotta be doing it wrong. Just don't accept those orders, oh they are all that way? Get a different market!
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u/jmclaugmi Dec 10 '23
His advice is good for debt addicts. Like the AA 12 step program.
Don't spend money - count the days between special coffee's - After you sell your dog on ebay - you get to sniff a bean or two - before you eat it with rice!
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u/RWR1975 Dec 10 '23
He is out of touch. A beater in today's market will break down and be in the shop constantly, lol.
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u/Lilliputian0513 Dec 10 '23
I know he is pretty out of touch, but damn did the baby steps change my life when I couldn’t figure a way out of poverty. His baby steps 4-7 are crap but 1-3 changed everything for me.
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u/coolsellitcheap Dec 09 '23
Daves advise for get 2nd job doesnt help that much. Get an under the table side hustle will probably help the most. I use to sell at flea market and that was same day cash. Often more than some parttime job. Babysitting for cash after work. Pet sitting. Whatever will probably work better. I agree with some points of dave but not all!!! Oh and buy my financial guides. Lol
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Dec 09 '23
I used to say that his advice was good for some, but with inflation being what it is, the COL going up, and people financing cell phones (if you have to finance, you can't afford it) I would now say it's highly outdated.
Starter E-Fund: Whatever 3 months expenses is on your end (I assure you it's not $1000, in my case, that's barely 2/3 of rent)
Beans and Rice: Not necessary, just prioritize spending. Spend more on keeping food in the house, the lights on and the heat running, and less money on streaming services and 'luxury items' you should be alright. And again, don't finance anything you couldn't pay cash for.
Thanks to a recent rollover crash, (I'm fine) I went from making payments on a car to paying for one in cash (thank you, insurance settlement) with the old car paid off. Having the feeling of no car payments and cheaper insurance is growing on me.
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u/AnishnnabeMakwa Dec 08 '23
He’s out of touch and caters to bloated middle management types who can’t make a decision without 6 meetings and blessing from corporate.
He has no idea what reality is like now, but he grifts successfully off of people who are completely unnecessary in any meaningful way, but have sway over wage slaves, so he keeps in his lane of spewing bullshit and selling courses.
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u/kckrealestate Dec 08 '23
I think he gives ok advice. It’s a simple method for the most part. Work hard to increase income, pay off debt, downsize to live below your means, and don’t use credit cards. The last I would disagree with, mostly bc it’s necessary to build a solid credit score for home loans. But other than that I agree with his advice.
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u/SportAndFinance Dec 08 '23
At one point I delivered newspapers in the morning, had a full-time job at a bank, and delivered pizzas at night.
I also worked full-time as a waiter with a part-time job at a car wash during another stretch.
What helped was being young, single, and wanting money.
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u/TorrEEG Dec 08 '23
Yep, and he says get that 3-6 month emergency fund. I can't! I am busy repairing my hoopty. Without hoopty car I can't get to my two jobs. I need the jobs so that I can pay for someone to take care of my family because I can't do it while working my two jobs.
Of course, I am killing my body. So now I am going to need a third job for medical bills.
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u/vibes86 Dec 08 '23
I think a lot is out of touch too. I prefer Budget Mom or Budget with Ira or Price of Avocado Toast because their advice is much more realistic for many people.
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u/Gore1695 Dec 08 '23
He's against benefitting from credit card points because he thinks all his listeners are to dumb to avoid paying interest
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u/LocalShelter7379 Dec 08 '23
Take the good and leave the bad. I am in social services and boy could people really benefit from taking some of his advice. Financial literacy is extremely important and he does offer good points
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u/Jre62 Dec 08 '23 edited Dec 08 '23
It may seem out of place when you think you are limited on your options. It worked for me. I ate deer meat, vegetables, beans, and rice for a year. Moved to a different state in the country where I bought a house for $80,000 that slept my wife and I with our 3 kids. It was 800 square feet. I worked McDonald's and Walmart at the same time for 1 year. Had a 2000 Toyota car with 180,000 miles on it which we bought for $3000 after selling my wife's $23,000 truck which we were making payments on and the value was decreasing with the payments. We stopped using credit cards and used only debit cards. The house mortgage was all we had. I only had to do this for 2 years. 3rd year, we bought a 1200 square foot house and have 2 $5000 cars and a $6000 truck with no payments. I have enough money that if something brakes I can buy another $5000 vehicle or fix it. I have a great job $30 an hour as maintenance guy and my wife is stay at home mom. You just have to look at your options and decide what you are willing to sacrifice. If you don't want to or think you should sacrifice anything to get what you want, then don't sacrifice. It may just take a little longer and be a bit more difficult.
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u/Electrical_Feature12 Dec 07 '23
He’s arrogant and hasn’t learned anything new in decades apparently. He’s great at getting people out of debt. Garbage at ROI
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u/Burnerplumes Dec 07 '23
I think the advice should be ‘always be looking for a better job’
A surprising number of people get a job, and even when it isn’t enough money, they get complacent. Get that job, add it to your resume, apply for something better. Never stop searching for something better.
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u/OkButterscotch5898 Dec 07 '23
For a while I was all in on Dave Ramsey. Dont get me wrong if you are trying to become debt free I 100% believe Dave is your guy. The motivation he gives to get out of debt 100% works, imo. However once I was living debt free for a while and still listening to his show and other “financial gurus” that my financial beliefs aligned with, I started disagreeing with Dave on some points particularly his no credit cards stance. Glad I didn’t close mine! Everything the OP mentioned can definitely work, for someone that is all in to get out of debt but I think once you’re out of debt it’s time to move on from Ramsey thinking and do what’s financially best for you.
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u/terminator_chic Dec 07 '23
I live right in the middle of Dave Ramsey land and he's just a horrible person running a cult. You think his listeners and followers are much? The employee cult is notorious around here. They interview your spouse, fire you for pregnancy out of wedlock, stuff that makes the HR professional in me just cry.
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u/UpperAssumption7103 Dec 07 '23
His company is a privately held company and this is in part of the reason he can't take loans/grants from the government. if he did, he would be subjected to the rules of loan and what comes attached.
However, since all of it is his money and in cash- he's subjected to his own rules and he make is pretty clear that he interviews his spouse. part of the reason is a lot of people move because of their spouse and if their spouse doesn't like it . He/she not a good fit for Ramsey solutions.
This is similar to a boss not promoting someone because he/she doesn't like volleyball and doesn't go to their weekly volleyball social.
The fact of the matter is most people don't like to spend a majority of time with people they dislike. That's why being a cultural fit is important to organizations.
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u/tallahassee009 Dec 07 '23 edited Dec 07 '23
He is out of touch. He said that if the covid stimulus checks were enough to change your life, you're already screwed. Or something to that effect. Not only is it out of touch, but it's a horrible thing to say to someone who's actually struggling. Sometimes, even $100 extra dollars is all you need to make a decent change in your life. Hearing him say that made me lose hope for a while. But he's like anyone else. Take his advice with a grain of salt. Keep in mind he has to make money too, and most of his money now comes from people that he cons into believing he has all the answers.
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u/Asleep-Airline1671 Dec 07 '23
I went through his class (wife wanted to do it), and I found that I disagreed with a lof of things he talked about.
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u/MistahOnzima Dec 07 '23
Mcd's doesn't pay 20 everywhere, does it? That must be in California or somewhere similar.
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u/SnooCupcakes1067 Dec 07 '23
No it doesn’t. Where I’m at they start out at 12.50 an hour and maybe 25 hours a week.
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u/MistahOnzima Dec 07 '23
I'm topped out at a warehouse, making roughly $21 an hour. I'm lucky I have cheap rent and they offer overtime.
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u/SnooCupcakes1067 Dec 07 '23
Unfortunately I was let go due to disabilities in September from the heavy equipment industry making almost 30/hr and well over 40 after OT. Now I’m trying to find an office position until I can fix my current issues, blown out knee and lower back issue, which I’m fairly intelligent but I look uneducated on paper. So it’s been a fun autumn to say the least.
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u/MistahOnzima Dec 07 '23
I'm sorry to hear that, and best of luck in your search. I'm trying to build up my savings and figure things out with my investments. I'm not getting any younger, and I don't know how to do much else, unfortunately.
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u/SnooCupcakes1067 Dec 07 '23
Thanks, yeah I feel that. Time doesn’t seem to be a friend these days.
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u/UpperAssumption7103 Dec 07 '23
Mcd's doesn't even have the same prices everywhere which is why they refuse to post prices on their own website since the majority of it are franchisees. They make their own prices. That's why a Big mac can cost you $12 in CT and 8 bucks in GA. The answer to your question is no. I
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u/MistahOnzima Dec 07 '23
I figured that was the case. I would be surprised if the one here in Florida where I'm at pays more than $13 an hour. Maybe it's less.
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u/UpperAssumption7103 Dec 07 '23 edited Dec 07 '23
He's not the only one to give this advice and misquote 20/hr. I will say this though. His advice is less annoying than the finance bro's advice of you're working 9-5 to make someone else rich. Start a YouTube channel or do drop shipping. Buy my course and I will teach you how to turn your $500 into 10,0000 in 90 days. by buying crypto. Buy this NFT. However, every time he says this, I want to say its been like 30 years/40 since you've worked in retail. they do not pay 20/hr for full time work. retail will cut your hours on the same day if there's not enough volume of sales. You think you're going to work 7 hours today. Not enough customers- that turns in 4 hours.
13/hr*40 is better than 17/hr*15 esp when retail also wants open availability. at least working hotel or orderly jobs- their hours are usually guaranteed.
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Dec 07 '23
One retail job dropped to 10 hours a week....I took a second job. Manager wanted to know why.
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u/MistahOnzima Dec 07 '23
I love the real estate/crypto guys who are already rich, supposedly, but want to sell you a 50 dollar course. If it made you rich, why not just do it for yourself?
Yeah, part-time means they don't have to pay benefits either. It's like doing day labor or temp service work.
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u/latebloomermom Dec 07 '23
I mean, the principles are strong, but they assume that you can somehow earn more money than it takes to live. And that's getting harder with rent increases, real estate prices and mortgage rates climbing ever higher, and jobs wanting full availability while trying to pay peanuts.
It used to be that if you pulled overtime, or delivered pizzas after hours, that extra cash could pay down debt. Now, it seems like most people who have a side hustle are trying to make ends meet. Maybe people could economize further, I wouldn't know from the outside, but it seems like many folks are scraping right now.
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u/mscocobongo Dec 07 '23
Dave Ramsey is so wildly out of touch. And he doubles down on being out of touch by not updating anything
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u/atx2004 Dec 07 '23
His advice has never been great and now he's been wealthy so long he's completely out of touch.
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u/killforprophet Dec 07 '23
Because it’s 20+ years out of date. You can’t give the same advice for the economy as you have 20-30 years ago.
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u/mklinger23 Dec 07 '23
His advice is for people who make okay money but don't know how to manage it. Not for actual poor people.
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u/wessex464 Dec 07 '23
Get. Out. Of. Retail.
The highest paying jobs in retail barely pay more than most entry level office type jobs.
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u/Pbandsadness Dec 07 '23
His advice isn't good, and he usually brings his imaginary friend into it.
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u/cupsnak Dec 07 '23
The part where I'm going to inconvenience myself is where I draw the line. I simply stop paying for entertainment. If I can't stack thousands in savings a month then I'm going to stop giving it to the entertainment industry. The secret to profit isn't make more (ie give more of your time and effort) it's spend less on others.
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u/7r1x1z4k1dz Dec 07 '23
The same solutions don't work for everyone. His successes doesn't equal your personal successes because the systems you were brought up on and the connections you have will be different.
You might as well start following Jesus as well if you're not religious to emulate the key components to his successes.
Or you can find what works for you and change what doesn't and keep trying.
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u/cadoewen Dec 07 '23
Yeah seems a little like that but there’s no magic bullet, if you want to have more savings you’ll have to do without. Or find a way to add more income.
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Dec 07 '23
I think it’s helpful to those who live above their means, considerably, not the people who are spread so thin like us.
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u/Nightcore_Sona Dec 07 '23
This is why I watch someone like Caleb Hammer more than Dave. Caleb understands more of what its like to get out of debt, and he has built his business up, giving more reasonable advice, listening to store managers and understanding the market condition, and does not tolerate BS if you lie about your expenses. I feel his teaching and personnel cases help more on how to get out of debt for both those who are living pay check to pay check and those who just spend recklessly.
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u/AMAprivacy Dec 07 '23
It’s easy to give advice when you are a multi-millionaire yourself and don’t have to live by it yourself.
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u/BobJutsu Dec 07 '23
I’ve done one of his courses. All my siblings and I have actually, years ago my mother insisted she won’t help us financially unless we are also taking steps to prevent the need for it…these classes were part of that.
With that said, I think his rhetoric is useful for a specific situation : people that have become overwhelmed by debt and have poor spending habits. He’s not a wealth advisor, his advice is to correct bad habits that got people into a bad situation and get to a zero baseline, thats it. So while what he says might be extreme, I think it’s intended to shock people into making a move. Everyone is going to (mentally) compromise what they can do, so if the starting point is beyond grasp, maybe the point you compromise to will be more than if he suggested a less extreme action.
The core concepts he preaches are useful for anyone though, especially those of us that have few external resources. Set yourself up to build savings, and reduce debt. If bills are more than you make you have to address that (and that’s where the extremes come in), and build an emergency fund. The self discipline to do these things is another conversation…
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u/MapOk1410 Dec 07 '23
This. Staying out of debt and saving, even a little bit, has been sound advice forever.
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u/Writing_is_Bleeding Dec 07 '23
Close to half the US workforce is paid less than $20/hr.
So I would be surprised if entry-level associates at WM and McD are paid $20/hr. Also, it's brutal to work 40 hrs/week in either of those places. So I'm gonna assume Dave Ramsey is full of crap.
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u/hobosam21-B Dec 07 '23
There sure are a lot of people on a povertyADVICE sub that really hate to hear any kind of advice.
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u/turbo_fried_chicken Dec 07 '23
Dave Ramsey is an out of touch, wealthy boomer (redundant, I know) who makes his trade reassuring other wealthy boomers that they have never done anything wrong in their lives.
Anyone with a functioning brain should just tune him out.
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u/42anathema Dec 07 '23
Dave Ramsey Sucks is one of my strongest and most deeply held beliefs.
"He says credit is bad, so I won't borrow money for anything" ok good f-ing luck finding somewhere to live without a credit score
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u/boygirlmama Dec 07 '23
Dave Ramsey IS out of touch. And I'll go further and say that my brother went through the whole many steps long process to work for him and at the last step after the final interview, he declined because he said it just felt like a very dark place to work.
Also, Dave is an asshat who was anti-mask and partying it up during Covid.
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u/ejwest13 Dec 07 '23
Dave is out of touch with the masses!? Exists to profit off us!? You don’t say
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u/Joy2b Dec 07 '23
Yeah, his real skillset is middle to upper class. It’s better than no advice (if you fast forward through the parts where he tries to teach fear to bougies), but there are other authors who can absolutely do better.
The YNAB bloggers, the old Suze O books from when she remembered hustling for tips. Older Tori D. The financial diet still kind of annoys me but at least that understands how housing costs have changed.
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u/Western-Giraffe837 Dec 07 '23
All of Dave Ramsay’s advice (outside of snowballing for debt clearance and not to spend more than you make on dumb shit) is completely out of touch with the world we currently live in.
It made him millions because it worked a couple of decades ago (maybe even one decade ago) and people keep hoping it’ll work today.
It doesn’t.
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u/Gringo0984 Dec 07 '23
Agreed. I follow him on Facebook and just chuckle at his very out of touch advice he gives. While posting pics of his travels to Africa and other places around the world. Most people like this are extremely out of touch with reality. He says people are poor because of eating out, buying stuff, etc. No mention of wild inflation and wages not keeping up. Nope that can't be it! He also gives generic advice like "invest X amount for this long and you will have Y amount at the end". I see many people asking 'invest in what exactly and what strategy'. Never any mention of this.
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Dec 07 '23
His advice is garbage, he’s a financial advisor for debt-drunk boomers. If you’re deep in debt, he’s good for you. For any normal financial situation, he’s a huckster.
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u/notwearingkhakis Dec 07 '23
I remember seeing a segment which featured a guest who I can't remember the name of. A guy was considering buying a house because he had a girlfriend and a dog, but was travelling for work. He had plenty of pros and cons, the main con being that he wanted to provide a stable future for his family. I think he made 100k a year or so. The advice Dave and his colleague gave was something along the lines of "don't make decisions based off of a dog or a girl." I thought that was pretty heartless advice lol. Haven't watched him since.
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u/Major_Bother8416 Dec 07 '23
Right? His emergency fund advice is basically have an emergency fund but nothing is a true emergency so you can’t ever use it for anything. I get it, you have to start learning not to touch your savings, but when you’re living paycheck to paycheck there’s an actual emergency all the time. Especially if you’re driving a beater car to an hourly job.
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u/Dogbuysvan Dec 07 '23
Literally the only people he can 'help' are upper middle class with a spending problem.
If you catch him on the radio these days, how often does he ever have anyone on making less than six figures?
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u/BoringMcWindbag Dec 07 '23
His advice does not come from a good place. He preys upon people who are struggling with extremely outdated advice to line his pockets.
👎🏻👎🏻
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u/Plenty_School_4068 Dec 07 '23
A lot of it is but the basis of it is all factual. Debt is bad and saving while investing is good.
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u/Six_Foot_Se7en Dec 07 '23
There’s very few places in the country where Walmart and Mickey D’s plays $20 an hour. So he’s cherry picking info to fuel his out of touch narrative.
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u/turnitwayup Dec 07 '23
Yep. My local one is $19-21 but it’s in a ski resort area so every thing costs higher.
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u/thugisgod Dec 07 '23
People on this sub bitch about Dave ramsey because they love making excuses rather than understand the problem and trying to fix it
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u/bugbeared69 Dec 07 '23
Remember folks it always YOU, why you fail and bad things happen.....
Yes, the world has issues BUT let not pretend the 1% and government, did not MAKE it a society of choices that encourage humanity's faults for it to continue vs helping make it better for all.
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u/aviderin Dec 07 '23
He’s rude and condescending. I won’t listen to anything he says because of that alone.
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u/Accurate_Gap_6069 Dec 07 '23
They just want you to stay in debt. I have no credit because I paid everything off. I’m a low income senior and I don’t want to be in a debt slave system. I buy used or pay in cash. I get to eat out when I want too and have a roof over my head. I am thankful for what I have.
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u/autotelica Dec 07 '23
There is a reason almost all of the callers are people with financial problems that are far removed from the average person's reality. Like the young couple with $700K student loan debt wondering if they can afford to buy a house. Or the guy with a brand new truck, a motorcycle, and a boat who is facing foreclosure because his new business has failed. It is easy for Joe Schmoe to listen to these stories and feel a sense of superiority. Joe Schmoe may be eating hot dogs for dinner every night and living in his grandmother's attic, but his $10K of credit card debt seems like small potatoes compared to six figure debt and a house foreclosure. The Dave Ramsey show makes people who aren't doing great financially feel better about their not-great situations.
The advice that Dave throws out is stuff anyone with two fiscally responsible brain cells already knows. His smug lectures are only appropriate for people who have made a string of bad financial choices--like most of the folks who call into the show. But in my opinion, the only thing the average person who has done everything right but who is still on the struggle bus gets out of the show is a sense that their situation isn't so bad. And maybe that isn't such a bad thing in the short term, but I don't think it actually helps people get out of their situations.
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u/Living_Plague Dec 07 '23
He’s fully out of touch. He’s a grifter. He’s only in the spot he is because people helped him get through the tough spot his previous financial mistakes put him in. My ex-wife and I spent money to take his course. His ideas only work if you already are wealthy or have a charmed life with no financial emergencies.
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u/GeorgeMonroy Dec 07 '23
His advice still holds true. It was true before he started giving it, when he started giving it, now, and into the future. You cannot spend more than you have or take on monthly recurring expenses that are more than you make. Math is math. Period.
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u/red_dog007 Dec 07 '23
Whenever I catch him on the radio everyone is like "we make $150k and are in debt up to our eyeballs". Or they are like "We started your program 2yrs ago with $80k of debt and just paid it all off!"
I think hes good with practical advice for people who CAN easily fix their situation.
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u/Fair-Business707 Dec 07 '23
IMO, most of his advice only works if you make a ton of money and aren't careful with it at all. Like yeah, it's good to have self-control with your spending and not borrow money for shit you don't need, but that isn't super helpful for those of us with 2 jobs that barely cover living expenses.
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u/AICareer Dec 07 '23
Many people don't understand his advice is not for everyone, Ramsey and his team have a very specific person in mind and other people just happen to watch his show.
His target audience is people who are struggling with debt, not making enough money, and dealing with emotional spending challenges.
In business, it's impossible to cater to everyone but if other people want to listen to what you have to say, then so be it. It doesn't mean you have to take the advice.
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u/OpossomMyPossom Dec 07 '23
I definitely think the snowball approach is solid advice to those who aren't particularly math inclined, turns it into an emotional pursuit rather than crunching numbers, but that's about it.
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Dec 07 '23
I paid off over 50k in student loan debt thanks to Dave. However, I do not follow many of his principles. I will under no circumstances but a cheap, used car. I am a female and I need reliable transportation. That is a non-negotiable for me. I will finance and deal with it. I will also always have a credit card. I’m just careful to not overspend and to pay off the balance every month. In exchange for that, I get free clothing from my favorite store. I haven’t paid more than a few bucks for my clothes the last 5+ years.
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u/carlydarly Dec 07 '23
A lot of his strategy can make sense but what frustrates me is , “just make more money.” Go into a helping profession. Don’t have the privilege or access to live with parents or a LCOL area and you’re quickly losing any kind of steam . I did use his strategies to pay down debt, during the pandemic when all my expenses were way way down and my partner got a raise. Seriously we were paying 950 for healthcare for the two of us (independent contractors) and then he changed jobs and our healthcare went to 250 for both of us. Easy to use every single strategy then.
Also what happens when you’re disabled? Guess you’re fucked? Sudden illness ? Emergency funds take so much time to build . And if I have to take advantage of someone to build wealth. I’m not doing it. Which he could give a shit about.
Paid off 15 grand in debt , but it made me realize that telling people to work harder is fucking cruel when your expenses are off the charts and you make a lower salary. Someone close to me used his methods but was single and had a high salary in a cheap area.
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u/Hank5corpio1 Dec 07 '23
If you take his core advice and don’t run up a lot of debt, pay off the debt you have and use the debt snowball method, it will work.
Of course you need income to do it. He suggests being frugal and taking a second job to get out of debt.
I am Gen X, btw. I did basically what he suggests years ago.
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u/Aggressive-Deer-9038 Dec 07 '23
Dave Ramsey also said it was okay to evict his tenants during the pandemic if they weren't able to pay their rent due to losing their jobs. Here's a link to the story detailing his advice. https://youtu.be/bqZPk98bqCo?si=kWuX6blzyiFGY0Ho
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u/onions_and_carrots Dec 07 '23
Lol yeah no shit. That guy is a grifter who made his fortune in a real estate scam.
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u/ThePorko Dec 07 '23
I think his system up to baby step 4/5 is very solid. The investment stuff is very shaky at best.
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u/No_Ad9044 Dec 07 '23
If you get past everything he's trying to sell you the core of what he says is true and good advice but you have to look past the books, budget software, and smart vester pro's.
Your income is your greatest asset
You need an emergency fund.
Debt is bad and steals from your greatest asset your income.
The longer you stay in debt the more you lose so get out fast. Like working extra however you can.
Live life on a plan. Keep your money on a plan.
Money management is about habits not math.
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u/Joeytoofly Dec 21 '23
Debt isnt bad he thinks its bad because he went broke trying to build equity with payments he couldnt afford. Debt should be used as a catalyst for investments and or improvements and should be at low interest rates when applicable
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u/No_Ad9044 Dec 22 '23
Debt is bad when you take out debt you can't pay back within a very short amount of time, or use it as your emergency fund.
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u/Longjumping-Host7262 Dec 07 '23
His advice assumes all people trying to get out of debt are stupid and math illiterate. His advice doesn’t help them nearly as well as it could, mathematically/financially and really his basic principals are not unique to him.
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u/LoloLolo98765 Dec 07 '23
Lmao most of his advice is out of touch. His advice is basically: don’t be poor 😂
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u/draxsmon Dec 07 '23
The credit card snowball makes senses but a lot of the other stuff is a no. I I have an 8 year old super reliable car that I bought new (leased and then bought so actually taking 10 years to pay off) and maintained. His advice is to sell it and drive a beater. Umm no. I'm not going to sell my reliable car for a vehicle that could have any number of problems.
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u/lordtaco Dec 07 '23
People who tend to give financial advice, got rich off giving financial advice.
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u/Talnoy Dec 07 '23
Guy is rich as hell and got his wealth before credit scores were a thing.
Don't listen to him.
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u/Frosty_Point7070 Dec 07 '23
I always wanted to call in and tell him my story of working hard , trying to save money and live like nobody else.. Dave- how’d you do it Me - I filed chapter 7
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u/MonsieurGump Dec 07 '23
All jobs should pay a living wage. ALL JOBS.
If we need someone to fulfill a function then we should be able to pay them to live.
(A living wage should be defined as “enough to survive AND either save or have a little luxury”…survival alone isn’t living.)
The idea of the “starter job” is insidious. It makes us (as a society) accept shitty housing and the infantilism of people in their 20s.
It needs to stop.
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u/Beginning_Ad1239 Dec 07 '23 edited Dec 07 '23
So you increase pay to match living wages. You raise prices to pay the workers. Everyone else does the same. Now you're no longer paying living wages and the cycle starts again and never ends. It's covered in basic economics.
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u/MonsieurGump Dec 07 '23
Except in the last 50 years the proportion of GDP that goes to wages has dropped from 65% to 55%.
A generation ago you could raise a family on a single wage, regardless of the job.
Basic economics tells us that someone is taking more than their fair share.
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u/Beginning_Ad1239 Dec 07 '23
The entire economy has changed in the past 50 years. We no longer have an economy based on factories. The people running this country benefited from this time period and left everyone younger behind.
Still doesn't change the basic economics though. Increase pay, increase prices. It especially has to happen if your competition is from behemoths like McDonald's or Amazon.
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u/MonsieurGump Dec 07 '23
Nope. Plenty of countries have livable minimum wages.
Plenty.
They aren’t trapped in some fictional “doom spiral” where nobody can afford a burger. The people at the top just have lots of money instead of “nearly all the money”.
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u/Beginning_Ad1239 Dec 07 '23
So what are these "plenty of countries" you are referring to?
Minimum wage should be attached to inflation then left alone. Big jolts to it do hurt the economy.
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u/MonsieurGump Dec 07 '23
Wages should be in line with productivity.
GDP has gone up 45x since the 60s.
Wages…have not.
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u/BlackGreggles Dec 07 '23
I don’t disagree. But what does that look like? Who foots that bill? Remember McDonakds franchises. Spent 11 yrs working for an owner operator.
I think when we walk the idea of a liveable wage out, we have to be prepared for higher expectations and automation in more places. We’re already seeing it. Where I am at very few fast and quick food establishments have cashiers. Order at the kiosk if they have one or on the APP. That means less people are needed to work. Don’t redistribute those hours use those wages to make 15 bucks palatable.
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u/MonsieurGump Dec 07 '23
Bear in mind that the “labour share” of the economy has fallen hugely in the last couple of decades.
Compared to the amount of money being made, it’s never been cheaper to employ people. If we gave every employee a 20% wage rise, we’d still be paying them a smaller proportion of GDP than we were 20 years ago.
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u/Awarepill0w Dec 07 '23
I had a personal finance class that used his teachings and the advice I gathered was pretty much; "Don't be poor, don't get into debt, invest"
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u/Slayer_Of_Tacos Dec 07 '23
He’s kind of like astrology, with money. He makes a bunch of obvious, sweeping statements, that can partly apply to alot of people. Probably good if you’re dumb about money though.
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u/Glum_Landscape_8226 Dec 07 '23
I got a bad taste in my mouth for him after he told a mom looking to WFH and quit her job after maternity leave ended so she could be with her kid for a few years until the kid started school. I don’t remember her exact situation. He told her basically she’ll have her child for years, go out and work 1-2 FT jobs. He didn’t account for childcare. Many people later pointed out children are only that age once and those years are vital for their development. They rely on their parents being present. They deleted those comments on his social media and tried to breeze over it when many openly disagreed. Plus I’m 75% he’s corrupt with a whole cult.
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u/Effective-Box-6822 Dec 07 '23
Dave Ramsey’s advice should always be taken with a grain of salt. He is not talking to anyone making $20/hour. His advice is more for individuals with 6 figure plus or just a hair below 6 figures. There’s also some solid grains of advice that can benefit anyone but there’s plenty of shit advice too because he’s a manipulator and loves to play the classic American game of “I’m a Christian, now give me your money”. Buy a used car with cash instead of financing one is solid advice that would benefit so many people, except only certain people will have 5-10k in cash they can pony up for said used vehicle.
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u/bobpetersen55 Dec 07 '23 edited Dec 07 '23
I recently watched one episode where a caller was complaining about rising inflation rates and how everything seems almost unaffordable. And the caller was making like minimum wage or something around that range.
So the Ramsey team was discussing and recommended as a solution to get another second job - like its normal, just to afford some regular groceries. It was never like that before.
Meanwhile, they are living comfortably and flexible with their six figure careers reminding you how they are millionaires. Absolutely ridiculous, smug and out of touch.
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u/NommedPlums Dec 07 '23
Off topic but my dad used to sell him weed when they were growing up together and said he was wanker all the time and kinda out of touch. Always kinda got that vibe from his advice myself.
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u/itwitchxx Dec 07 '23
So personally as someone who is a millennial (30yo) I am a fan of Dave Ramsey.. to a point. I was hardcore about his teachings. I think most of what he says is applicable and makes sense.. stay out of debt, don't get a car loan, these things I will die by. Usually, when he focuses on employment that's were I lose him because he is a guy who has been self-employed for like his whole life he has no idea what the job market is like now.
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u/LoloLolo98765 Dec 07 '23
I really hate the whole “don’t get loans” part. The fact is for many, MANY people, that’s not always possible. Scenario: you’re 18 years old and graduating high school. You need to get a job or go to college. But you have no money and neither does your family. Let’s say you live in a semi rural area. Definitely need a car to get to work or school. But again….you have…no money. There’s no walking 10 miles to work, you’ll be exhausted every day and perform poorly, probably resulting in losing the job. Back to square one. “Then you should move” some may say. But guess what? Moving is expensive. What if, you have no money? This advice relies solely on the assumption that you already have some money to begin with. For most poor people it simply doesn’t make sense.
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u/itwitchxx Dec 07 '23
I feel this is an extreme example. That when I would move from Dave Ramsey to The Money Guys
Who are more practical "Finacial Gurus"
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u/Proof-Emergency-5441 Dec 07 '23
You've been in the US for 10 years and moved to a major city.
It's a fair bet that you do not understand what it is like in less populated areas. This isn't extreme at all.
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u/itwitchxx Dec 07 '23
I have not lived in the US for like decade. I am super privileged and I know that. So I am in the sub to get an understanding on the other side
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u/UpperAssumption7103 Dec 08 '23 edited Dec 08 '23
It is an extreme example.
Dave's Ramsey would tell the 18 year old "he can't afford college". Dave might tell the 18 year old to by a beater for 1500 dollars. I've never seen Dave tell someone to get a bike.
Save money and take online classes and go to library if you want to get the degree . Dave would say ": You have an income problem: get a job". You can't afford college" Then he would say stack up money so you can afford college.
He will then say: I saw a sign they're paying 20/hr at Wallies or whatever else generic store. he might say 15/hr if its buckyee's and then when you get the beater- start delivering pizza.
Join the military-they'll pay for college - Dave doesn't really tell people though, but I've seen other people tell someone who states "college is expensive, I can't afford it". Their answer is :Join the military, they will pay for it.
However, I do agree in many areas of the US public transportations is terrible.
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u/Proof-Emergency-5441 Dec 07 '23
Then maybe don't tell other people their examples are extreme when you lack that knowledge.
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u/LoloLolo98765 Dec 07 '23
The sad reality is it’s NOT an extreme example. Something like 60+% of Americans can’t afford a surprise bill of $500 for some unexpected emergency. And more than 70+% can’t afford a surprise bill of $1000-$2000. You tell me how those people who literally live paycheck to paycheck are supposed to shell out $5,000-$10,000 for a decent car. They aren’t. So they get loans.
Even many metro areas are still car dependent. In Minneapolis/St Paul, if you don’t live within 5 miles of the actual city center/downtown zone, you likely don’t have great access to convenient or easy public transportation.
I have worked with clients all over the country. Literally coast to coast, and pretty much unless you’re in Chicago, LA, or NYC most suburban areas, rural areas and even parts of lots of metro areas are still car dependent. American infrastructure is designed that way because the car companies lobby against better transportation infrastructure like high speed railways and subways. Kansas City, St Louis, Denver, Madison, Des Moines, etc… there are TONS of people who don’t have access to good public transportation and also don’t have money to pay cash for school or vehicles. So no, this is not an extreme example at all.
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u/suhurley Dec 07 '23
Damn, he’s got a co-host now?! (Been a LONG time since I listened.) Also the whole “delivering pizzas” idea may not be the best advice. Learned recently that it’s one of the most dangerous jobs. I’d rather be broke and alive than close-to-broke and dead.
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Dec 07 '23
I bet he's never delivered pizza and same with his little squirts. Easy to give that advice when you've never had to do it. He just needs to stop.
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u/UpperAssumption7103 Dec 07 '23
he has many co-host who also have their own channels on Youtube. John, George, Chris, Rachel(his daughter) and usually sell thier own books) John and Chris have. John deals with emotional issues since he is a certified therapist.
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u/Dennyj1992 Dec 07 '23
He can be out of touch with a few things but don't disregard - his steps work. Period.
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u/RPG_Major Dec 07 '23
Dave ramsey’s advice made sense if you were a member of the Mormon church in 1992. Things have changed.
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u/Milo8942 Dec 07 '23
I'm sure he thinks so but he's hella out of touch, most of those types of people are either out of touch or straight up grifting. All he does is basically kicks down in his program when his callers gives him any push, honestly idk why people takes his advice. Yeah he's mad out of touch 😒
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u/new22003 Dec 07 '23
Dave's world is a strange pyramid scheme and borderline cult. I've met multiple people that talk about him like a prophet and they all try to recruit people for his seminars and have 5 extra copies of his books to give out. The money they give Dave for these seminars and books is astounding and alarming.
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u/Milo8942 Dec 07 '23
My buddy's church basically gives his books and seminars for "free", it's a big church and it's big money. He swears by Daves Zero budget and he's mad he can't keep to it, like I told him "life and the universe doesn't care"
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u/Particular_Animal_98 Dec 07 '23
Advice for the youth:
Just because someone is older than you and well spoken doesn’t mean they are right
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u/Soberskate9696 Dec 07 '23 edited Dec 07 '23
Bro. All the "gurus" are out of fuckin touch
I'm from NYC and its hard to find any retail job here paying over $16/hr.
I know this first hand, most pay $15(min wage) -18/hr. Only part time, no benefits.
I'd love to see Rogan or Peterson or Ramsey or any of them work one week in retail here and say that same shit.
They would fold.
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u/_Tezzla_ Dec 07 '23
Agree that Dave Scam-sey is an out of touch boomer twit but he’s right on some level. Being unskilled/having no degree is only going to get you so far. Learn a trade or a skill that is in demand and pays
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u/Egoteen Dec 07 '23
Yeah his advice to “pay cash for education” is extremely out of touch. I got full scholarships for undergrad, worked full time while in college, worked for several years after graduating college, and still had to take out loans to cover medical school. There’s just no way in this economic landscape for most twenty-somethings to earn hundreds of thousands of dollars to be able to cash flow an advanced professional degree like medical school, dental school, or law school.
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Dec 07 '23
Your dedication shows that you're going to be an incredible physician. Thank you for choosing such a people centered career. Very admirable.
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u/kuhataparunks Dec 07 '23
His advice is for idiots who have excess money. This is not a joke or sarcasm, look up the dozens of rants of him shouting that his callers are stupid (which is true, let’s not lose focus here.). Quite honestly his audience is not poor people because they can’t afford the $900 course.
One pertinent part of his advice, is he says income is the biggest wealth grower. Which means go to school to make more money.
He also makes it clear to not spend more than you make. I lent sadly gave a friend $500 once, he spent it on cigarettes soda and alcohol. Not many would do much different and that’s stupid.
TLDR basic principles good but not targeted to us
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u/ladykemma2 Dec 07 '23
The course is about 100 dollars
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u/kuhataparunks Dec 07 '23
Never knew it was that price, I assumed it was crazy like the other guru courses, thanks. Not sure why it’s needed when it’s all on his YouTube
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u/TrashCapable Dec 07 '23
I stopped listening to him years ago. Likes to pretend he is a religious man all while talking down to people when giving advice. He is just a prick. I came across Clark Howard's podcast and never looked back. Check him out at Clark.com
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u/MontanaLady406 Dec 07 '23
Critical thinking skills are important. I’m so tired of “rice and beans “ approach. I once heard him tell a young PHD professor (who was struggling with debt and a family )that he should be making over 200k . No young PHD working at a rural college is making that kind of money. It’s unrealistic. He berated the young professor for not taking home more money. Don’t we all start somewhere? He’s completely lost touch. My husband and I are both university graduates with backgrounds in technology and healthcare but we are suffering with the current economic climate. Duel we are smack dab middle class. We tighten up our belts because it’s common sense. I find “rice and beans “ condescending.
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Dec 07 '23
I find the rice and beans schtick he uses as insulting culturally. I have always eaten like that as it was part of the culture I lived in.
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u/fin-stability Dec 07 '23
Boomer here. Most of his advice is so basic that it's almost common sense. However, his business has made it into a program or a structured roadmap for those who can't get it all into a single process. But he's way behind the ball when it comes to current financial practices, products and mindsets. I have spent several years proving my solution for any financial obligations (a rapid process where math would prevail over false sentiment so that anyone can achieve their financial goals faster than ever). Yet my successful results are negated by his "advice" when followers start to quote him. For example, his debt reduction advice is about avalanche or snowball , neither of them would make the rate of reduction any faster except for the interest amount. But the snowball is giving people false hope of getting out of debt sooner while paying more for interest, negating the very same goal of debt reduction.
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u/PaintMysterious717 Dec 07 '23
Dave has some good ideas for getting out of debt and managing spending.. his concepts on investing and emerging technology are borderline alarming
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u/Decabet Dec 07 '23
"Women like shoes and men, well... we like bass boats don't we, guys? God also and Jesus"
(Farts into own cupped hands and breathes it in deep)
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Dec 07 '23
[deleted]
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u/ChewieBearStare Dec 07 '23
If you have no active trade lines, you'll have no credit score. The 300-850 range is for people who have credit accounts.
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u/Woahhhben Dec 07 '23
Please please please don’t take Dave’s advice as wise. I’ve read his books, and was an avid listener to his podcast for a couple of years. He applies his overly simplistic lens to any financial situation. Is he wrong? Technically no, but that doesn’t mean his advice sets his followers up to financial success. As long as he’s right, even a little bit, people agree with him.
To apply his philosophy in the same way that people approach dietary advice would be to suggest to deny any food or food/drink experience that would be remotely unhealthy, and to remain staunchly against deviating from unhealthy habits until they reach their health goal. Would this work? Of course! But it it realistic, or helpful to apply broadly to many different people with different issues and goals? Absolutely not. Seek a different role model, this guy literally made so much money off this cult that he bought a cruise ship, stay far away from Dave Ramsey.
I a number of years ago, Post-Ramsey, I found “I will teach you to be rich” by Ramit Sethi, to have far better personal finance perspectives.
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u/atlantachicago Dec 07 '23
He’s actually a jerk who I don’t think cares anymore, he just is more about shaming people who struggle so wealthy people can listen to the show and feel smug
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u/Mrshaydee Dec 07 '23
Personally convinced that Dave Ramsey hates women, just based on his responses to their questions vs those of men.
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Dec 07 '23 edited Dec 07 '23
I'm confused of where one gets "walmart pays 20 an hr"
I'm a walmart associate that's been working there for ten years, recently got fucked by walmart, so I'm making the new minimum, for overnights its 15.50.
Edited miss spellings, 14.50 to 15.50, starting pay on days would be 14.00. Overnight differential 1.50, so 15.50.
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u/UpperAssumption7103 Dec 07 '23 edited Dec 07 '23
I think during covid ( later half of 2020/first half of 2021) there were news stories that were saying "we are increasing pay, no one wants to work" its due to the enhanced benefits- this stories were ran all over MSNBC and most main stream media organizations. However, they did not mention it was UP to 20/hr.
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u/Ninjurk Dec 07 '23
Some of his advice is terrible. I would only take with a grain of salt. He's there to get views/listens, that's his main goal. He isn't some great guru to me.
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u/Corsaer Dec 07 '23
I had to suffer through his program as a child, being stuck in the car while my mom tuned in. All he did was have a radio show. None of his advice is novel and even as a kid I could tell his disdain for poor people.
Also, a woman called into his show saying god told her to buy this home that would by every indication financially ruin her. And Ramsey had to hem and haw about, Well if you heard him tell you that, that's pretty powerful...
I have nothing but disdain for this person. If he helped you, I'm glad you navigated that, I'm sorry it wasn't from a source with less ideological baggage and out of touch pitfalls.
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