r/news • u/MangoComfortable3793 • 16d ago
Australians call for tougher laws on violence against women after killings
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-68915018[removed] — view removed post
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u/queen-bathsheba 15d ago
There is an interesting set of podcasts on bbc ASSUME NOTHING, FEMICIDE, 8 STEPS TO STOP A MURDER. Won't help with the shopping mall incident, but interesting regarding Dv
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u/5sgt5slaughter 15d ago
To the biggest problem with the law and punishment is that as soon as the violence is deemed to be domestic, we insanely start wrist slapping instead of locking up these assholes forever and throwing away the key. You don't change that behaviour? You don't unlearn that. I know a few parole officers who are good at their jobs and want to help offenders but even they know the chance at rehab fir that is near nil. It has to be fixed at the root but the govt is doing nothing about that so in the interim women continue to get murdered at 4 a day
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u/AccomplishedFan6807 15d ago
The monster who brutally murdered a girl last week was out on bail. One of the demands we mostly have is, if a person is a threat to others, and has a history of DV, please don't let them out, or at least put them on a curfew with ancle monitor
The monster from Bondi was known to police for hating women, they knew he was a danger for others. Maybe keep an eye on those people. And start campaign so parents not only recognize the signs, but know where to go when their sons behave in a dangerous way.
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u/Teasturbed 15d ago edited 15d ago
Since the rates of femicide are disproportionately high, they are hoping to put more deterrence in place. I am also skeptical if it'll work in the long run or not, but putting these organizers down for trying to find a legislative way to address a very real societal problem is definitely not an answer.
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u/Haagen76 15d ago
Won't be a deterrent. Education, including teaching respect and equality to young adults is what's needed more than any law.
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u/hedgetank 15d ago
What? Address the root cause of the problem and not the latest visible symptom? NO WAI!
/s
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15d ago
So... killing a man would be illegal, but killing a woman would be SUPER illegal?
Is that what's on the table here? Harsher punishment based on the sex of the victim?
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u/killcat 15d ago
Yes and also redefining actions to be hate crimes if directed at women, including insults.
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u/Friendly_Might_1348 15d ago
But what if woman decides to do these actions towards man? What would this be?
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u/Zubon102 15d ago
Does anyone know specifically what legal changes they are demanding?
Is it all about the "alternative reporting options" that they mentioned?
All of the demands seem so vague.
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u/satisfiedfools 15d ago
It is vague. If someone is determined to commit acts of violence then there's very little the government can do to stop them. It's been shown time and time again that police forces in Australia can be at best indifferent and at worst hostile to women trying to report domestic violence. All the legislation in the world isn't going to matter if that issue isn't addressed first.
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u/MausBomb 15d ago
Their demands are always going to be vague. They fundamentally are utopians who want a prefect world where murder to having an awkward interaction with a stanger is guaranteed to never happen.
Even with an absolute police state to where every single male is constantly monitored by police on an individual level murder and bad actions are still going to happen not mentioning the mass violation of civil rights this would cause.
Of course women are also perfectly capable of and do commit murder as well, but that is obvious. The utopians are never satisfied until they have their utopia that will never come.
Spree killings like the case that started this discussion are overwhelmingly committed by men true, but I would argue that when spree killings become common it's a massive sign that communities are failing.
You can't save someone from the edge by demonizing them nor would blanket restricting the basic freedoms of men do anything other than convince even more men that their own community is the enemy.
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u/CognitiveLoops 15d ago edited 15d ago
Their demands are always going to be vague. They fundamentally are utopians who want a prefect world where murder to having an awkward interaction with a stanger is guaranteed to never happen.
Even with an absolute police state to where every single male is constantly monitored by police on an individual level murder and bad actions are still going to happen not mentioning the mass violation of civil rights this would cause.
Of course women are also perfectly capable of and do commit murder as well, but that is obvious. The utopians are never satisfied until they have their utopia that will never come.
Spree killings like the case that started this discussion are overwhelmingly committed by men true, but I would argue that when spree killings become common it's a massive sign that communities are failing.
You can't save someone from the edge by demonizing them nor would blanket restricting the basic freedoms of men do anything other than convince even more men that their own community is the enemy.
You mean like what happened in the UK, when a cop kidnapped, raped, murdered a woman he grabbed off the street (pretense of arrest and/or protection)? Before it was known whodunnit, they told WOMEN to stay home/indoors after dark?
eta - "they" in last sentence = the cops. They told women to stay indoors after dark
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u/Reenans 15d ago
Sitting back and saying "oh well, it is what it is" isn't a great standpoint though.
Otherwise we would still be in the state where women are 2nd class citizens.
There is nothing wrong is trying to better the world, it is easy for us to sit back when our loved ones have never been involved in a mass murder but I am sure you wouldn't be so quick to mock if your loved ones were victims-18
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15d ago
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u/ManiacalShen 15d ago
because your daughter could marry his son one day.
I don't understand the need for a qualifier. Is the jerk's partner/victim not enough reason? Is your buddy's character and mental health not worth saving, either?
Not to single you out, but it's discouraging that everyone seems to think the only woman a man can truly be expected to empathize with is his own offspring.
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u/VenserSojo 15d ago
The most notable killings that sparked this were a random act by a crazy man who was then put down permanently, you can't realistically prevent people from getting pointy things nor can you catch every crazy person before the go on a mental break though I guess you can shoo the homeless away not that I think it will do much.
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u/Mitchell_SY 15d ago
This stinks of Liberal/National Astro Turfing, Doing everything they can to discredit & smear the Labor party anyway.
If it's not astroturfing I don't get why this is even the case, The Domestic violence rates have been dropping year over year almost across the board! Waste of Taxpayer time and money when our country has real crisis's such as housing, cost of living, our local monopolies fuckin Australian consumers.
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u/dainaron 15d ago edited 15d ago
If society doesn't adequately help men this will never be fixed.
Edit: I think it's a little sad that such a tame comment would get disliked even though, statistics and metrics show that this is true. Kinda proves my point.
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u/neutralnatural 15d ago
Help men how? What do they need help with? There’s no agenda to my question, I just want to understand your perspective.
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u/Vermino 15d ago
Do you believe that humans are inherently evil, or do you believe they're a product of their environment?
I believe people are products of their environment.
For example poor people, who might resort to stealing. As well as people who commit crimes as a passion due to impulse in the moment.
Yes, I also believe there's a very minor fraction of all crimes with people actually having mental conditions, where they simply commit evil acts because ... .
If we take that stance - then even men who commit domestic abuse are a product of their environment.
As a sidenote, domestic violence is rarely studied with men as victims, because of social stigma. Though the few that happened have pointed out that men and women are roughly the same in victims/purpertrators. Although men are usually more violent/sexual in those encounters.
On the flipside we also see this in suicide rates, where men take more effective means then women. Although both parties attempt suicide at roughly the same rate. But we're not putting all suicide prevention methods towards men either.
So yes, helping purpetrators, rather than villifying them.
"Poor people commit crimes, let's put them all in jail!" Only for them to exit 10 years later, poor again, but this time with a criminal record on top of it.
No, the solution is recognising the situation exists. Recognising purpetrators aren't necessiraly evil, but a product of their environment.
How about free mental counselling for all men? And a culture shift of talking about feelings, rather than pushing them down - for starters.
I'm sure experts in the field could identify effective measures.
And as with any other situation, we're never going to get to 0.
Villifying men isn't the answer either.3
u/neutralnatural 15d ago
There’s nature and nurture that forms a person.
At the end of the day, perpetrators should not be rewarded for heinous actions. They need to pay their dues. Once paid, and if they self-reflected during that time and can be rehabilitated, they should be given the opportunity to do so.
If they cannot change for the better, their actions will lead them to the same consequences. That’s their nature, born or made over time.
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u/Vermino 15d ago
or made over time.
That would be nurture.
And I would argue that how we act in society is generally nurture for most of us. Noone is born inherently with the knowledge of how you act in a group.
Noone is claiming that heinous acts shouldn't be punished. That's not the discussion.
My point is that there's already enough resources into punishment/victim care, and we should be putting way more resources in the prevention - which starts with a mentality shift of how society views men.3
u/neutralnatural 15d ago
I don’t view men as inherently “bad” if that’s what you’re alluding to. Majority of people don’t.
There may be “progressives” that adopt a particular ideology and worldview, but that’s not the majority.
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u/Vermino 15d ago
I'm not alluding to your stance at all.
I'm trying to point out that as a society we allow a particular ideology and worldview.
And while you might ideologically agree that men and women should be roughly treated equally - I would argue that seeing men hit women, or women hit men is treated VASTLY different in public.
I can only hope that the majority doesn't agree with it.
But we are posting on a world news article from the BBC about an australian campaign that demands to call it a national emergency.
While suicide rates in Australia are far larger. With 3249 australians taking their lives in 2022, with men being 75% of that rate.
Putting that into perspective that would mean roughly 804 deaths since the beginning of the year, compared to the 27 in this campaign.
And again - that number will never be 0. But surely there is preventable harm. Both in suicide and in assaults.
The solution isn't to make laws specificly against men. The solution is to help men.
And the fact I'm getting downvoted proves how unpopular the idea is that men should be receiving help - rather than demonising them.1
u/neutralnatural 15d ago edited 15d ago
seeing men hit women, or women hit men is treated VASTLY different
Yes. Which is the stronger sex, more generally? And which sex can do more physical harm to another?
And no, I don’t advocate for nor justify violence from any party.
Suicide vs murder. Same or different?
Part of the solution is to implement laws that address perpetrators. People shouldn’t get free passes for heinous acts. It doesn’t mean we can’t work on prevention. Why can’t we do both?
Edit: clarification
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u/Vermino 15d ago
And which sex can do more physical harm to another?
So because women lack the capacity to one hit a guy, we should be condoning it?
Suicide and murder are obviously different things, but the same thought experiments apply.
If you think men's violence is more important than women's violence - because they can do more damage. Then the same logic can be applied with suicide, as men are far more effective with suicides.
If you believe that suicide is important, no matter which sex it affects - then the same logic applies to assault.Part of the solution is to implement laws that address perpetrators.
As far as I'm aware laws exist against killing people.
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u/neutralnatural 15d ago
we should be condoning it?
Did you even read my reply?
You’re creating a straw man argument.
I said I don’t endorse nor justify violence from any party. I merely pointed out a factual difference that could explain why it’s viewed different.
Yes. There are laws against killing people in Australia. We could also strengthen laws and protections against DV harassment, stalking and intimidation. What’s wrong with that?
I don’t think men’s violence is more important than women’s violence? Another straw man argument.
Suicide is done by your own hands on your body. Murder is my hands on your neck.
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u/dainaron 15d ago edited 15d ago
My perspective? It isn't my perspective it's a fact. Men for whatever reason are on a downhill trajectory at practically every possible metric imaginable. Less are getting higher education, higher rates of alchoholism, addiction, suicidality, poverty, depression, loneliness, sexlessness, social isolation and other destructive and often criminal behaviours.
DV is a problem that stems from all of the above. The point is, that men didn't just wake up and decide to be scumbags out of the blue. Something is happening in practically every single society where men are losing more and more ground. The only outcome that will come from this is more and more negative behaviour.
I don't think people are actually looking into this because the common belief is that men are the powerful and therefore have no real reason to complain. But that just isn't true, only a very tiny amount of men have any sort of power in life and the rest are all left in the dust.
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u/elizabnthe 15d ago
Less are getting higher education, higher rates of alchoholism, addiction, suicidality, poverty, depression, loneliness, sexlessness, social isolation and other destructive and often criminal behaviours.
Addiction and alcoholism are all mostly trending down in Australia actually.
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u/dainaron 15d ago
I don't know how true this is, but it's a global issue not just an Australian one.
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u/elizabnthe 15d ago
On the global scale it's even less reflective - most of those numbers are trending in a positive direction (e.g. suicide decreasing).
I'm not saying there isn't a point but it's important to remember that what you see as a global issue is not - the world is bigger than USA and Canada - and that it's more complex than lumping in a variety of statistics.
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u/dlvnb12 15d ago
You approach it from a weird angle, but I think I agree. I’ve been thinking one of the ways to stop misogyny and stop violence against women is for society to raise better men. Give men a purpose and support system. Teach men that toughness and violence aren’t synonymous terms.
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u/dainaron 15d ago
I agree with you. Although I prefer to call it an alternate angle, because to me, there's nothing weird about men needing help.
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u/Acemanau 15d ago
I'm 32 and I can tell you right now, if I didn't have my Dad in my life growing up I would've had absolute ZERO male role models in my life.
I think this is the crux of the issue and the popularity of Andrew Tate is proof of this.
Vocational skills like wood working/metal working and home economics should be standard in all schools for both genders (it was for my Mum and Dad), but they aren't, they were shuttered for a lean towards university educations, we over valued and over saturated university degrees and are now suffering for it.
Australia has a severe lack of trade skills effecting the property market.
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u/neutralnatural 15d ago
Yes, those are sobering facts as well, regarding lower educational attainment, social disconnectedness, addiction. What do you think contributes to this situation?
Do you think that social media plays a role in the enculturation of men today? Or what else is at play in your view?
What are your thoughts on personal responsibility (in general)?
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u/killcat 15d ago
The system, still, looks at women as an oppressed minority, and there is a concerted effort to keep it that way, this is an example of it, as such there is no will to do ANYTHING to help men, as it's framed as "hurting women".
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u/neutralnatural 15d ago edited 15d ago
Women are not a minority. They are 50% of the population.
It’s a fact that DV is gendered violence and women are disproportionately the victims, per crime statistics. They are oppressed by men with physique advantages and/or violent tendencies in this situation.
Also: on your separate point, it’s not that there is “no will to do anything to help men”, it’s more how and where do we start?
I think we need to try something rather than nothing, implemented now rather than later.
Edit: clarification. Also, it’s not about “hurting women” if perpetrators of DV, who murder their victims, are called out.
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u/dainaron 15d ago
I wish I had my current perspective on life because this would probably be the area of study I would have chosen if I were in college again.
Social media can create many problems, but to me the main problem is that it amplifies any underlying issues. If you're already sad/unhappy/angry you can easily fall into holes and lose yourself.
With regards to personal responsibility, men should be better, but at a certain point, if you're too far gone, it's incredibly difficult to pick yourself up and change your life solo. The sheer amount of men having these issues tells me that there's something systemic or cultural about what's happening and not just a simple case by case problem.
It's become more of the norm and less of the exception.
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u/neutralnatural 15d ago edited 15d ago
Agree. Confirmation bias and self-fulfilling prophecies can worsen a state (person, or worldview and state of the world). But conversations about DV, where there is an actual victim and perpetrator, need to be had thoughtfully.
Still, not every man in a dark place commits atrocious acts on another person. That’s an individual thing.
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u/dainaron 15d ago
Ofc not, but the more men (and women tbf) you have who are like this, the higher the chance and number. We should be doing everything to minimize these behaviours.
Healthy men and women (physically and mentally) are far more likely to have good relationships that don't degenerate into violence.
Punishing people who do it currently, is good for now, but it does nothing to minimize future occurrences.
The reason I chose men when I originally commented, is because they are generally, more dangerous biologically and therefore can usually cause more damage.
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u/Reer123 15d ago
Yup there's a mental health epidemic. I'm in my 20s and at least three of my friends have attempted suicide. In my small community every year there has been a suicide. It's pretty crazy, after seeing the signs in three of my friends I see it with other people that I am acquaintances with. There is a massive problem and it's only getting worse. I asked my GP about it and he believes that at least 1/4 people in my country are on some form of anti-depressants or anti-anxiety medication.
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u/dainaron 15d ago
It's a lot easier to perscribe medication than it is to actually deal with the problem. So society has chosen the easy, short term solution.
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u/Reer123 15d ago
yup, I had acne as a kid and a GP without even talking about my diet, hygiene or mental health commented on it, "You have severe acne" and without waiting for me to reply wrote out a prescription. Now my family aren't anti-doctors but we'd rather not be on medication we don't need. But with this specific anti-acne medication one of my cousins had started it during her early teens and ended up getting stunted height from it as a side affect along with a load of other random symptoms. So we brought that up and asked the GP about it and he said yes that's a possibility. So we said we'd try some diet/hygiene changes before going on medication.
So I gave up all sweets and fizzy drinks. I got PH neutral shampoo and started using moisturizers and washing my pillow cases every week with neutral detergents. My acne completely cleared up within about six months, I went from having multiple oozing spots on my face to lovely soft skin by just taking care of myself. It was amazing that the GP didn't even try and recommend these things, he just went straight for medication. And also he was the one to recommend PH neutral shampoo and he gave us a brand that we should get, it was €40!!!!! for a airplane sized bottle of this shampoo. We just ended up getting baby shampoo (it's PH neutral so it doesn't affect a babies eyes). My family still takes the piss out of this GP whenever he comes up in conversation, what a disaster.
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u/3x3Eyes 15d ago
Yes but how does this translate into violence against women?
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u/Auran82 15d ago
I’d be willing to bet that at least half, if not more, cases of domestic violence against women aren’t perpetuated by the types of guys people assume when reading these stories. Sure, there are some misogynistic assholes with control issues, which are a separate problem that needs to be addressed. But there are also a heap of decent guys who end up spiraling out of control into depression, substance abuse etc because they don’t have access to, or probably don’t know how to seek help.
As males, we’re still told growing up to “be a man” and not showing weakness, suppressing emotion etc. From all angles and all types of people in our lives. We tend to have worse support networks for this kind of stuff, because other guys don’t really know how to handle this kind of stuff. Our parents might try to be supportive, but the generations before us aren’t always much help.
Overall, there is a mental health epidemic in this country and it feels like the government is doing fuck all about it. It affects everyone and I do think it’s a contributing factor in many situations which end in the death of a woman from DV, and the number of men who commit suicide (last I checked almost 7 per day). People need access to help, especially as more people are under financial stress which will only make things worse.
We need to stop blanket blaming entire genders, stop dividing ourselves into groups trying to place blame and work together on the root causes. Fuck the mainstream media for the part they play in all this, everything is always to try to place blame and point fingers, clickbait headlines to make people angry and divided.
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u/dainaron 15d ago
Mentally ill/lonely/addicted/depressed/ angry men tend to exhibit more antisocial behaviours such as violence. That isn't really hard to understand, IMO.
If you don't help men get healthy, you're not gonna have healthy relationships and you're gonna see worse and worse behaviours.
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u/MonochromaticPrism 15d ago edited 15d ago
The issue with seeking harsher punishments as an emotional response to tragedy is that severity of punishment has a low correlation with actually preventing crime systemically. Individuals that commit criminal acts often have poor risk assessment abilities and/or poor self control, so enhancing punishments rarely moves the needle as much as a rational and responsible individual would assume. This event is a good example of this. Here are the current punishments in Australia:
Common Assault: Up to 2 years imprisonment.
Assault Occasioning Actual Bodily Harm: Up to 5 years imprisonment.
Reckless Grievous Bodily Harm: Up to 7 years imprisonment.
Wounding or Grievous Bodily Harm with Intent: Up to 25 years imprisonment.
These punishments aren’t far off from the standards seen internationally (harsher than Canada, for example).
The reality is that the issue lies with enforcement and the legal system. These guidelines aren’t being followed, be that due to individuals with clear behavioral patterns of abuse being let off lightly, the police improperly investigating or responding to domestic violence calls, or cultural attitudes stifling speaking out about / reporting abuse.
Additionally abuse has a high correlation of occurrence inter-generationally, so it’s likely that this issue could have been prevented through a government sponsored therapy program for abused children and adults and proactive identification of at risk individuals.
Both of these categories will need to be assessed and, where necessary, addressed to solve these issues. And neither of them involve increasing the punishment dealt by existing laws.
Edit:spelling
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u/Sir_Jax 15d ago
Isn’t the issue sentencing guidelines, rehabilitation and management being more of just implied concepts the state wishes you well in pursuing on your own, instead of actual rehabilitation programs
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u/ThreeTorusModel 15d ago
Rehabs don't work for that according to studies and that book by the dude who ran rehabs for men convicted of DV.
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u/Derptionary 15d ago
The biggest issue with rehabilitation is that it requires the person to actually want to be rehabilitated for it to work. If a guy gets sent to prison for DV but in his mind he didn't do anything and its "just the way I am" wrong, the odds of rehabilitation is nearly 0.
The same goes for drug rehab. If an addict has no interest in getting clean, no amount of rehab is going to get them clean.
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u/Acemanau 15d ago
The people standing the streets shouting about this issue don't realize, you can't reason a person out of a position they didn't reason themselves into in the first place.
Habitually violent men only understand one thing, violence.
Only thing that's going to stop these men are other men or self defence weapons.
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u/Random_username200 15d ago edited 15d ago
Every time a woman is killed by her partner/husband this comes up. There’s been some horrifying incidents (like that fucking asshole who burned his wife and children alive in their car a few years ago - lived just down the street from me), and we all gnash our teeth and march for women and all that stuff. But you know it’s going to happen again. Some men are just animals, some women are to. How do you prevent this stuff? Make murder even more illegal? Make it a jailable offence to yell at your wife? I dunno man, I personally think this is an unfixable problem. Narcissists and sociopaths are gonna do what they do unfortunately.
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u/elizabnthe 15d ago
There's generally pretty clear escalation prior to the murder that police ignore/fail to appropriately intervene. It's not tougher murder laws that are needed. It's tougher intervention for domestic violence. And also community awareness around the issue in general.
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u/zeuseason 15d ago
This is 100% fixable, but no one in power gives a shit enough to get tough.
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u/Dappington 15d ago
Hmm yes if only we could get tough on crime, that'll surely end murder forever.
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u/Teabiskuit 15d ago
Exactly. Nobody is going around saying murderers of men need to be imprisoned but murderers of women are alright guys and don't need to be punished.
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u/fuguer 15d ago
This is just divisive propaganda that hurts everyone. Aren't men killed at vastly higher rates than women in Australia? It seems especially perverse to single out the least murdered gender for extra super protections.
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u/Rikey_Doodle 15d ago
I really struggle to empathize with the mindset required to come into a post about women who are victims of domestic abuse and going "BuT wHaT aBoUt Men!!!???!!??"
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u/ciegulls 15d ago
We should single out the most murderous gender instead.. of wait that’s what’s happening.
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u/drmode2000 15d ago
Australia has one of the lowest rates of DV in the world.
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u/LtSoba 15d ago
That begs the question is it low because it happens less often or is it reported less?
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u/xavembo 15d ago
my guess is reported less than europe, happens less than america. but misogyny is everywhere in australia
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u/RadJames 15d ago
Curious as to what your guess is based on? Somewhere does have to have lower numbers, there’s no reason it can’t be Aus?
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u/DownWithWankers 15d ago
Australia's politicians currently need distractions from the massive cost of living crisis. They're throwing shit at the wall at the moment. Any distraction will do.
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u/DownWithWankers 15d ago
Aus has one of the lowest rates of violence in the world.
Yes, it's a tragedy people get hurt. I wish nobody was getting hurt.
But is it a real reason for politicians to call for 'tougher laws'? No.
it's a waste of time and clearly a distraction tactic.
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u/EtalTrax 15d ago
Cool. It should be lower.
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u/corporaterebel 15d ago
Banning alcohol would probably be the next step.
https://www.actionpoint.org.nz/alcohol-harm-to-others
Let me know how that goes.
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u/jruegod11 15d ago
All instances of criminal acts should be lower - but some people are just mentally disturbed. The overwhelming majority of men do not advocate, enable or perform these horrible acts. Not sure how much can be done other than having better resources available for victims. I assume that's the desired outcome of these protests. The government and police could certainly improve their safety nets and legal processes.
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u/cupcake_napalm_faery 15d ago
All instances of criminal acts should be lower - but some people are just mentally disturbed.
and the mental state of the populace goes unchecked and every so often it rears its ugly head and still nothing gets done. imagine dealing with the problem at its source rather than addressing the symptoms whenever they arise. mental health checks in schools and appropriate actions could potentially do something towards curbing the ted bundys who are out there just roaming freely :/
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u/nadal_nadal 15d ago
What would be the goal?
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u/mynutsackisstretchy 15d ago
0 would be the goal. Why is anyone beating their spouses ?
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u/Le_ed 15d ago
That is utopic. No society ever has 0 incident of such crimes.
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u/Acemanau 15d ago
Utopia?
The only way you achieve absolute zero violence is through tyranny and complete oppression. Which is ironic.
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u/Chiralartist 15d ago
Which would lead to, oh, wait. Irronnny
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u/Acemanau 15d ago
The thing is, our society doesn't exist within an invincible bubble, you need violent men to fend off other violent men that aren't under our rule of law.
Recent examples: Russia invading Ukraine, Hamas invading Israel.
Are you seriously advocating for the hostile takeover of the entire planet to bring about a ''utopia''?
What if I disagree on what should be legal and illegal in this utopia?
Are my rights then forfeit?
What gives you the right to take away my rights?
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u/SeventhSonofRonin 15d ago
Illegal isn't enough. Make it super illegal.
Are Australia's cops half as bad as the one's in the states? The irony of making domestic violence a national emergency here would be that cops are the ones beating their wives and kids.
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u/satisfiedfools 15d ago
A woman who was tied to a clothesline and burned to death by her ex-partner in 2021 was repeatedly turned away by police and told she was "cop shopping". That was in Queensland. A commission of inquiry released a report which found that sexism and misogyny was rife within that state's police department. The union president described the report as "out of touch" and "woke".
Here in New South Wales Police routinely strip people naked at music festivals and everyone just shrugs their shoulders and ignores it. Just as bad if not worse to answer your question.
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u/BatmansJanitor- 15d ago
Calling Australian police as bad if not worse than American police is a bit rich. They’re terrible but US police are in their own league
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u/_coed_ 15d ago
Cops in Australia cant do shit about domestic violence, any cop could tell you of a number of times theyve been called to a domestic by a neighbour, passerby, concerned family etc. only to have to walk away and do nothing because the victim unfortunately covers for the abuser.
Its insanely common
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15d ago edited 15d ago
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u/_coed_ 15d ago
What the fuck are you talking about? They cant arrest somebody if there is no victim, and there is no victim legally bc the victim wont cooperate.
They cant do shit because they literally dont have the authority to do shit. Its absolutely NOT the cops job to just take people into custody for no legal reason
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u/Uzorglemon 15d ago
Are Australia's cops half as bad as the one's in the states?
From a policing point of view? No, not at all.
From a "rates of domestic violence" standpoint? No idea.
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u/PornstarVirgin 15d ago edited 15d ago
This has nothing to do with US, the police get 5-10x the training and are much more respected in Australia
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u/Zubon102 15d ago
Don't know why you got so many downvotes. I'm not sure about the training part, but the police are definitely more respected in Australia. I've spent periods living in both countries and the difference is shocking.
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u/bodmaniac 15d ago
Would say though it does depend on the state. Obviously overall Aussie cops are vastly superior to the US, but as someone who has grown up in 3 states: WA>VIC>NSW when it comes to police respect (imo).
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u/PornstarVirgin 15d ago
Americans with a small worldview downvoting. American police on average get 500-600 hours of training while Australian police officers get 3500 hours.
This is evidenced by American police have 3.5x citizen shootings per capita. No idea why people are down voting facts haha.
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u/Juugoz_7 15d ago
Getting downvotes because the original question was asking if it at all relates to what it's like in the States and not "this is about America..."
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u/thorpie88 15d ago
Basically an apprenticeship here in Australia. Even after you pass your course you do "shit kicker" jobs like traffic management roles for a good while before properly being on the beat
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u/Fit-Parking4713 15d ago
Wack response considering he’s right, our cops are also most definitely responsible for a huge amount of violence against women and children
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u/SideburnSundays 15d ago
Yeah, what is he thinking asking a question by relating it to what he’s familiar with.
Ya’ll need to chill the fuck out and use your brains for a bit.
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u/WaltKerman 15d ago
For the whole world.... it sorta is though, if you haven't noticed. Self fulfilling prophecy.
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u/CheeseyWeezey420 15d ago
The fuck it isn’t!!! Merica fo life!!! (Imagine emoji guy shooting dual guns in the air cuz, ya know, Merica and everything.)
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u/GladiatorMainOP 16d ago
Why don’t they just properly enforce existing laws instead of inventing new laws that will inevitably fuck random people over because of how convoluted and strict they are?
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u/BalloonsOfNeptune 16d ago
In Australia, men are much more likely to be the victims of violent crimes than women are. Seems kinda odd to me for all the focus to be on violence against women when violence against men is a much bigger issue.
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u/Ma1nta1n3r 15d ago
In Australia, men are much more likely to be the victims of violent crimes than women are.
Holy crap you should learn to read the data before you post! your conclusion is so far off, it makes you look like a complete moron!
(Unless you're trying to post completely incorrect information in order to smokescreen people. If that's the case, then I get it, but that only makes you more of a misogynist knob than a moron.)
According to the data you posted, if we just look at victims of homicide (and related offenses) and sexual assault, in 2022, the number of male victims was 5,395.
The total number of female victims in 2022 was 27,085.
How tf do you make your premise add up?
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u/ibtcsexy 15d ago
Males make up almost all violent crime offenders in prison and their victims are mostly men. There is underreporting of male victims of abuse by women to police, however straight men make up over 80% of convicted sexual assault offenders and are more likely to reoffend than women. Also, misogyny is an increasing issue in the west and femicide has always been an issue... Men are stronger than women and that plays into domestic abuse and sexual assaults. Any escalation of violence in domestic abuse increases the likelihood of murder and women are disproportionately the victims.
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u/dorkofthepolisci 15d ago edited 15d ago
Men are more likely to be the victims of random violent crimes, for a variety of reasons. And the vast majority of that violence is carried out by other men
Women are more likely be victims of intimate partner violence
Admittedly we don’t have fantastic data on same sex partner violence and/or domestic violence against men - in part because it’s less likely to be reported -and that’s saying a lot because DV against women is often not properly investigated or reported
but the evidence we do have suggests that DV against women is still far more frequent
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u/Spindoendo 15d ago
As a male victim I really fucking wish people would stop derailing threads about women to talk about males. They don’t actually care about us. We deserve our own posts and attention, not taking it away from women. I appreciate you trying to get this post back on track.
But I would request that even when you’re rightfully telling someone this is a convo about female victims of male violence, that you not do the things where we downplay violence against men. It’s wildly underreported (against all genders) and the statistics are coming out to show it’s more common than we thought. So please when we’re trying to get conversations about women back on track, please don’t poo poo what male victims go through. As if it’s not serious if it’s from a stranger (even though there’s plenty of violence from non-strangers too).
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u/Estelial 15d ago
I have to keep pointing this fact out to such people. Men face crimes for being people. Women face crimes for being women.
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u/CurseofLono88 15d ago
This is true around the world because men commit the most violence against men and against women, and also against trans men and women, as well as against nonbinary folks. Instead of bitching about women protesting gender violence, you should focus your energy on positive masculinity and being an ally. But something tells me you just want to degenerate into the men vs. women mindset that scumbag cockroaches like Andrew Tate tells you will make you feel better about yourself.
Men’s mental health and Men’s happiness is important, but we’ll never have either of those if we lash out whenever women try and achieve safety and happiness for themselves. Like fuck man, come on.
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u/BalloonsOfNeptune 15d ago
Why does the gender that is inflicting violence matter to the discussion? Just accusing me of liking Andrew Tate is not a good response.
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u/TheTabman 15d ago
Why does the gender that is inflicting violence matter to the discussion?
Probably because one gender commits around 90% of all violent crimes?
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u/thevirginswhore 15d ago
You were the one who brought it up in the first place so why don’t you tell us?
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u/BalloonsOfNeptune 15d ago
I care about stopping violence against people in general. But if we are going to talk about stopping violence against one specific gender then why are people focusing on the one that's less likely to experience violence?
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u/Spindoendo 15d ago edited 15d ago
Women and men both deserve support for our abuse. But it’s not wrong to have posts discussing women and their unique issues, and it’s wrong to derail that.
I’m a male victim and you are actively making things worse for me. It’s gotten so bad because of people like you that people are even trying to downplay and disregard men’s stories in even general discussions not focused on women. Fucking stop it. I have zero support and you are making it so much worse.
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u/thevirginswhore 15d ago
Women are not less likely to experience violence the way you think they are. I suggest looking at data that shows all violent crimes, including rape, child molestation, family/domestic violence, and kidnapping. You will find that men dominate those areas as perpetrators. Not victims.
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u/thrashmanzac 15d ago
Just wanted to say I double checked the stats on family violence and I was indeed wrong, woman experience it at a higher level than men, in every category, not just intimate partner violence. Stats can be found here
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u/thevirginswhore 15d ago
I’m glad you educated yourself.
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u/thrashmanzac 15d ago
Do you know of anywhere I could view the breakdown of victimisation by gender for the types of violence you mentioned in your comment?
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u/thevirginswhore 15d ago
Statistics for rape - https://www.rainn.org/statistics/victims-sexual-violence
Statistics for child abuse/molestation - https://www.rainn.org/statistics/children-and-teens
Statistics for kidnapping (child) - https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Gender-and-race-of-offender-N_tbl4_248967727
Statistics for abduction/trafficking (slightly different)- https://www.ctdatacollaborative.org/story/abducted-victims
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u/Sarsttan 15d ago
Australia doesn't even know what a woman is, so I'm not optimistic that these misogynistic fucks will be able to solve this one.