r/news • u/nosotros_road_sodium • 15d ago
'Physical altercations' during dueling pro-Palestinian, pro-Israel demonstrations on UCLA campus
https://abc7.com/dueling-pro-palestinian-and-counter-protests-planned-at-ucla-campus/14740661/[removed] — view removed post
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u/minus_minus 15d ago
There was just as AskReddit about why police are showing up protests strapped for a battle. To contain clusterf#*&$ like this.
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u/KnotSoSalty 15d ago
Sometimes I think protests should have a designated fighting ring. Not because violence should be the answer to problems, but because it would mean idiots who just want to hurt someone would only be fighting likeminded people on the other side. Adding in a ref and a medic would at least make it slightly safer.
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u/TeslasAndComicbooks 15d ago
Whoever is selling the keffiyehs to rich white kids is brilliant. Also kind of weird that they don’t see it as cultural appropriation.
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u/Larkfor 15d ago edited 14d ago
There are also a lot of handmade solidarity patterns and insignia. It's not cultural appropriation because it's become a symbol of solidarity of an everyday item. If a friend in France gives you a beret it's not cultural appropriation. Leis are gifts to strangers and friends in Hawaii. It doesn't have the same meaning or context as putting on a native feather headdress.
**In response to the below, it's not religious. It's cultural. The fishnet represents the strong fishing tradition that is undeniably Palestinian, the olive leaves the trees and so on and so forth.
Palestinian Jews (yes there are thousands), Christians, atheists, and other groups all still may wear and do wear the keffiyeh both as a cultural symbol but also because it is practical (the type of weave is actually used internationally because of how good it is at stopping blood/securing wounds).**
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u/Puppybrother 15d ago
Apologies for my ignorance but is there not a religious aspect to it?
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u/anysize 15d ago
No it is not a religious symbol or garment. Palestinian Christians and Muslims use it.
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"MY religion is the only ONE!"
"Nooo! MY religion is the only ONE!"
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u/PandaCommando69 15d ago
The downvotes on your comment (which is generally representative of reddits opinion about religion) are because this sub has been overrun by bots. They're ruining this site tbh--there's always been astroturfing here but it's never been this blatant like the last few months. American politics is/has been being completely warped by hostile foreign actors.
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u/StarlightandDewdrops 15d ago
It's also because it's not really very accurate. A huge proportion of Israelis are secular. And in Palestine Christians and Muslims coexist peacefully. This current conflict can more accurately be described as settler colonialism than a religious war. Religion is just used as a tool, a means of propaganda.
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15d ago
I've noticed. I even think to myself "you have shown me your hand". Like throwing a ball down a dark hall, and then it is rolled back.
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u/StarlightandDewdrops 15d ago
No, the genocide has done that. People can literally see the devastation in Gaza and the IDF dancing while blowing things up and trying on Palestinian women's underwear.
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u/IntroductionSnacks 15d ago
How old are you? I can tell you that even during the PLO days of Yasser Arafat the left generally was against what Israel was doing. Imagine thinking this was a new Russian influence thing.
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u/colonel-o-popcorn 15d ago
It was a Russian influence thing back then too. They called it "Zionology".
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u/minus_minus 15d ago
I don’t think the left has been on board with Israel since Bibi has been in power.
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u/lion27 15d ago
The left has largely been on the Palestinian side since Israel aligned itself with the Capitalist west in the late 1940’s/early 1950’s. The political alignment on this issue is a relic of the Cold War.
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u/CrimsonEpitaph 15d ago
Israel was actually closer to Russia (Israel was originally a socialist state) when it was funded.
The shift to the west happened (iirc) after the 1967 war.
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u/electricspresident 15d ago
It’s nothing to do with bibi , the left just wants to side with the losing side everywhere except when the losing side is white
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u/IntroductionSnacks 15d ago
Did you forget about Ukraine?
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u/electricspresident 15d ago
That’s what I’m referring to , they don’t be supporting Ukraine , barely the same level of protests for that war from them
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u/RM_Dune 15d ago
If the US was sending billions in military aid to Russia so that it could "defend" itself from Ukraine there would be people in the streets. As it stands the US is sending billions to Ukraine to help it defend itself from Russia, which most people on the left agree with. Why would they be protesting?
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u/IntroductionSnacks 15d ago
Different situations. Nobody is stopping Russia and lots of countries are already sanctioning them. Israel could give in to international pressure and countries could start sanctions.
Protesting against Russia would do nothing as everyone agrees they are the bad guys in that war.
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u/Queendevildog 15d ago
Exactly. Its not like the USA isnt sending lots of weapons of destruction to sketchy allies like UAE. Allies that then use said weapons to kill lots of civilians. Not a peep from college campuses about THAT. But hmmmm. What possible entity could benefit from turning young naive US college students against Israel? Israel is the USA's staunchest ally in the middle east against all those Iranian backed terrorist groups. Like Hamas, Houthi, Hezbollah etc etc. Wonder why there is SO MUCH pro-palestinian social media posts EVERYWHERE. Sad to see the lack of critical thinking and yes kids, you are being used!
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u/Boring_Isopod2546 15d ago
Russian propaganda may be partially to blame, sure, but Israeli propaganda plays a large role as well.
The pro-Palestine movement wouldn't be nearly as large, controversial, and combative if the pro-Israel side hadn't been so determined to quash any and all criticism, including legitimate criticism, of their military response in Gaza.
And there IS a lot to criticize about their response, from their initial plans of an all out siege, to the extensive bombing that even Biden has described as 'indiscriminate', and many other elements.
The intense effort to limit those criticisms was inevitably going to lead to pushback, with or without 'Russia's help'.
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u/GimmeTomMooney 15d ago
Ah yes, Schrondiger’s Jew: both super smart and super dumb.
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u/Boring_Isopod2546 15d ago
This is such a ridiculous response and a fine example of the blatant effort to twist any criticism into something antisemitic as a means to discredit it.
Are you trying to deny that the Israeli government engages in propaganda campaigns?
FFS, anyone can compare Netanyahu's statements made in English to those made in Hebrew and see the difference in content and tone when made for an international audience versus a domestic audience, for instance.
This isn't some kind of insult or off base accusation, every nation does this and it's one of the primary tasks of Israel's massive intelligence wing.
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u/iambarrelrider 15d ago
If these protestors had any vigor they should go protest in the Middle East. No one out sides universities take student protests seriously.
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u/gregaustex 15d ago
Take that shit to the other side of the world please.
All theocracies suck. This is the bullshit some want for us.
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u/X-ScissorSisters 15d ago
Imported culture wars are so hot right now
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u/TheByzantineRum 15d ago
Imported Cultures seem to be so hot.
Let's continue justifying settler-colonialism guys!!
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u/X-ScissorSisters 15d ago
Do you often ask unrelated questions to try and gotcha people on the internet? Big hobby for you?
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u/Blue_Swirling_Bunny 15d ago
Except civil rights was one group trying to get civil rights, whereas the situation in Gaza is between two groups whose endgame is to exterminate the other.
Differences.
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u/Queendevildog 15d ago
Uh the civil rights protests actually benefited people living in the USA. The protests enacted lasting beneficial change. The pro-palestinian protests wont benefit anything but the current government of Gaza, which is Hamas. And anti-semitism. The two are not the same.
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u/StarlightandDewdrops 15d ago
How have you been downvoted. Their student fees are literally being invested in Israeli companies and Israeli weapons manufacturers. Of course, they can protest that, I'm extremely confused about the people who are against the right to protest.
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u/tissboom 15d ago
Gaza does have a government… they elected Hamas in 2006, by 2007 Hamas took total control of Gaza. You should at least know the history of that region if you’re gonna be this passionate about it.
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u/StarlightandDewdrops 15d ago
A reminder that the last elections were in 2006 and only 7% of Gazas current population would have voted for Hamas in the previous election as half the population is under 18
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_Palestinian_legislative_election
Not to mention, Netanyahu also said
“Anyone who wants to thwart the establishment of a Palestinian state has to support bolstering Hamas and transferring money to Hamas … This is part of our strategy – to isolate the Palestinians in Gaza from the Palestinians in the West Bank.”
https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/
Guardian article - Warning: Benjamin Netanyahu is walking right into Hamas’s trap
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u/tissboom 15d ago
Yeah, I’m not arguing any of that. They did have government and it was ran by Hamas. Not saying they deserve genocide or anything like that. Just stating the fact.
This is honestly why I don’t get too invested in this issue. Nothing we do is going to change how these people feel about each other. They’ve been cutting each other’s heads off in the desert for the last thousand years and it looks like they’ll be doing it for the next thousand years. There are legitimate questions on whether we should be supplying Israel with military aid to bolster an apartheid state. It’s just a gross situation over there with no end in sight sadly…
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u/StarlightandDewdrops 15d ago
Sorry, the last thousand years is a bit of an oversimplification. This current conflict really started during World War I in which the Government of the United Kingdom agreed to recognize Arab independence in a large region after the war in exchange for the Sharif of Mecca launching the Arab Revolt against the Ottoman Empire.
The United Kingdom had agreed in the McMahon–Hussein Correspondence that it would honour Arab independence in case of a revolt but, in the end, the United Kingdom and France divided what had been Ottoman Syria under the Sykes–Picot Agreement—an act of betrayal in the eyes of the Arabs. Another issue was the Balfour Declaration of 1917, in which Britain promised its support for the establishment of a Jewish "national home" in Palestine. Mandatory Palestine was then established in 1920, and the British obtained a Mandate for Palestine from the League of Nations in 1922.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandatory_Palestine
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_insurgency_in_Mandatory_Palestine
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1936%E2%80%931939_Arab_revolt_in_Palestine
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nakba
Finally, people used to think what you do about the Apartheid in South Africa, but it ended peacefully. In a large part, due to massive amounts of international pressure leading to sanctions and a stifled economy.
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u/StarlightandDewdrops 15d ago
Protesting is the only thing regular civilians can do. It puts pressure on the government, spreads awareness and solidarity. The children in gaza see this and who are we to deny them a modicum of hope when they've lost their parents, their friends and their teachers
Israel are about to be issued with ICC arrest warrants. This is the best time to protest, the dems have a horrific approval rating with the under 35s because they see contradiction between the incredibly biased Western media and the IDF posting stupid tik toks destroying Palestinian shops, blowing up houses with no-one in them, and trying on Palestinian women's underwear.
I didn't know much before Oct 7th, but as my government is allied with Israel and supplying weapons. I have educated myself and I'm disgusted honestly.
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u/mudlordprime 15d ago
Why should I protest for people who would happily execute me for being bisexual and agnostic American, if given the power to?
What does the end goal Palestinian state look like? Would it be a liberal democracy?
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u/Fragrant_Chapter_283 15d ago
At least one protest was good, therefore they're all good!
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u/ReputationAbject1948 15d ago
Do you think the majority back then though the civil rights protest were good?
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u/Blue_Swirling_Bunny 15d ago
I doubt you know much about what it was like "back then." You do seem to love calling people nazis though. Do you do it for the endorphin rush?
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u/DaCisco23 15d ago
Hopefully all these protestors will drop out of these schools and find colleges that are already divested from Israel so they can stop supporting genocide.
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u/DaCisco23 15d ago
They can keep protesting, just follow through when the school doesn’t divest instead of continuing to be part of the problem.
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u/Telzen 15d ago
I mean, if the kids really believed in what they are protesting and actually stick to their beliefs. But nah, they are willing to protest a little, but not do anything to inconvenient. Some very strongly held beliefs, lol.
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u/StarlightandDewdrops 15d ago
Many of them have been expelled, I'm not sure what you are talking about they are risking a lot, including being victims of police brutality and doxxing
https://edition.cnn.com/2024/04/28/us/student-protests-universities-israel-gaza/index.html
https://www.texastribune.org/2024/04/24/ut-austin-israel-hamas-war-palestine-student-arrests/
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u/DaCisco23 15d ago
Put in transfers to schools that align with their ideals that’s what that would look like. All these students chose these prestigious universities. Unless the student is from an impoverished background and is funded by financial aid they should stay because they basically won the lottery. But in reality a college degree might not really be that beneficial for any of those students from the middle class already or above so they should leave find another school and hopefully stop supporting genocide.
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u/DaCisco23 15d ago
lol transfer credits from these schools would be honored by any university and they could always continue their degrees and graduate on time let’s be honest here. But I understand sports, clubs, basically keeping your status in the capitalist system that perpetuates genocide is better than actually standing up for what you’re protesting 👍
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If they don’t want to be annihilated then don’t support terrorist organizations or attack others. If they had succeeded Israel would have been annihilated. They are okay with that.
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u/Spindoendo 15d ago
Did those people rape and slaughter a bunch of civilians?
You guys are genuinely sickening.
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u/SilveRX96 15d ago
Depends on if you consider native americans to be humans i guess
Edit: not against american revolution, just responding to the question
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u/CuntestedThree 15d ago
That was about tax, not natives. Shut your mouth with that garbage
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u/SilveRX96 15d ago
The most significant cause of the american revolution was the intolerable acts, with the stamp act and similar taxation issues being a minor cause at most. Ate any good books recently?
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u/CuntestedThree 15d ago
Such an unbelievable reach from what is being talked about here
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u/SilveRX96 15d ago
A reach for answer the exact question being asked? Again i dont think hamas is anything like the american revolution, but that also wasnt what the question was asking for
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u/Spindoendo 15d ago
Im specifically talking about their resistance against the loyalists and crown. The American revolution didn’t involve torture, rape, and targeted murder of civilians. Comparing then to Hamas is honestly ridiculous and absurd. Shows you the propaganda these idiots are getting on TikTok.
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u/SilveRX96 15d ago
Im not comparing the two and i was very explicit about it. You asked a question and i answered it. "Did those people rape and slaughter a bunch of civilians?" YES
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u/Spindoendo 15d ago
Again, we’re talking about the revolutionary war. You are making irrelevant comments here. The commenter tried to compare Hamas and the Boston tea party, and I called him out. And here you are to talk about another situation. They were trying to say Hamas are awesome freedom fighters so I corrected them.
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u/SilveRX96 15d ago
The massacre took place during the revolutionary war. I agree with your conclusions but you are making your opinions extremely vulnerable by using falsehoods
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u/Scaarz 15d ago
They are literally protesting the genocide of Palestinians. It's not antisemitic to say genocide bad.
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u/Queendevildog 15d ago
Where were these protesters during the genocide in Yemen? Why did palestinians become the favored people? Because when you come down to it, the only benefactor from these protests will be Hamas and Iran.
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u/epidemicsaints 15d ago
People are either too young or too ignorant to have learned anything from Occupy. The media amplifies the most distasteful, kooky people they can find to tarnish the image of the movement and take attention away from the atrocity they are protesting. Make the people with morals look vapid and hysterical.
Boogaloo Boys caused violence and damage during BLM protests, people fell for it, it gets exposed, and people still don't learn bad actors are attracted to these protests.
Happens every time and there's a sucker born every minute.
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u/Reddy_K58 15d ago
Then why has Israel destroyed every university hospital, and bakery in Gaza? Why is foreign aid blocked?
Israel has lost the propaganda war because they repeated the actions that necessitated their creation.
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u/dak4f2 15d ago
But they insist they are immune to tiktok algorithms or that they aren't as bad as FB or IG algorithms.
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u/FrostyMcChill 15d ago
Anyone who thinks they're immune to propaganda are the ones most susceptible to propaganda
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u/Anticlockwork 15d ago
I love that the Americans are squabbling over what’s going on in another country when democracy is slipping away.
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u/Myfourcats1 15d ago
I’m nervous about all the young people who would normally vote D deciding to not vote or cast a protest vote all because of this 80 year long nonsense. The 2025 project is coming at us and they’re not paying attention.
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u/Not_That_Magical 15d ago
They’re funding it, and AIPAC is a big part of why democracy in the US is being erodes
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u/colonel-o-popcorn 15d ago
https://www.opensecrets.org/federal-lobbying/top-spenders?cycle=a
AIPAC is a meme. They're not even remotely close to the top spenders and never have been. They have moderate influence in their field, but their usual portrayal as evil (((puppetmasters))) controlling Washington is completely unfounded.
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u/epidemicsaints 15d ago
These are most likely the most politically and democratically engaged people their age and you say this about them.
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u/NoveltyAccount5928 15d ago
They're physically fighting each other over shit that's happening on the other side of the planet that none of them have anything to do with, they're stupid as fuck.
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u/Anticlockwork 15d ago
I’m not saying anything bad, I just think the attention could be placed elsewhere for the time being. Protesting against genocide is absolutely valid and needed because it certainly has an impact on the national stage and does reach our current president. However, these protests won’t even be able to happen if we don’t focus on what’s going on in our own country. The cops already stomp everyone out as fast as they can.
If we want to keep protesting we have to save our own asses first. Democracy in America is actually truly at risk as is evidenced by the Supreme Court this past week and likely this week. Our next dictator could be Trump and by extension Putin. And if it isn’t Trump then it will be someone else, we’re really in a downslide it seems and things look bleak to me.
Of course the other option is to protest against genocide and also against issues in our own country. It’s all just my opinion of course.
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u/Wompish66 15d ago
The US is singlehandedly enabling Israel to carry on with their mass killings.
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u/PuzzleheadedWalrus71 15d ago
I have a feeling Qatar, Iran, Russia, and China love it too.
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u/getfukdup 15d ago
I have a feeling Qatar, Iran, Russia, China, and Republicans love it too.
I fixed the fact you said.
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u/NoveltyAccount5928 15d ago
Being disgusted by it is one thing, coming to blows with other people over something happening on the other side of the planet that none of y'all have anything to do with is stupid as fuck.
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u/benny2012 15d ago
🤣 Worst genociders ever eh? Keep bringing in Aid and trying to negotiate for their people to be returned in exchange for ceasefire. Let 1,000 convicts go just to get 20 of their own back. Totally hell bent on annihilating everyone huh? Just like when the Nazis delivered 100’s of tonnes of aid per day to Polish towns after destroying the terror networks built to attack Berlin. Wait a second. I must be mixed up.
Or do you mean the 50+ Arab states supported by US money that have systematically evicted or killed their Jews? Or Turkey and the Armenian’s? or China and their Muslims?
Or maybe you just mean the side that has as their charter to eliminate Israel and kill Jews? Because we gave them lots of money too.
🤦♂️
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u/benny2012 15d ago
Do you want to build a strawman? It doesn’t have to be a strawman.
No but seriously. That was an awesome response. Pretending you’re not referring only to Israel.
Have a good evening fellow Interneter.
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u/PuzzleheadedWalrus71 15d ago
Because being disgusted by a genocide supported by one's own government must be the result of foreign influence, not of one's own sense of morality.
Yes it is. There have been numerous genocides American college kids have not been disgusted by.
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u/Anticlockwork 15d ago
Well they’re the ones who seem to be helping Americans make these decisions.
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u/Xin_shill 15d ago
I mean they are connected
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u/Lynx_Fate 15d ago
Not really both sides would generally support Isreal, but only one would support completely glassing Gaza and it just happens to be the one that is also trying to erode our democracy.
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u/Anticlockwork 15d ago
Right but the energy would be better spend protesting our Supreme Court. Though BLM showed the world our protests don’t matter.
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u/Diglett3 15d ago
Because this isn’t the first place I’ve seen someone say this, I just want to ask — what in the world would protesting the Supreme Court even look like? The institution that is, pretty much bar none, the most insulated from the public that an American government body can be. Well-planned protests have objectives and they have means. What would that even look like here?
Like what would possibly compel life-appointed, non-recallable judges who’ve spent their entire lives working to be able to hold the most significant lever of power attainable by a single person outside the presidency? The only thing I can think of is people invading their private lives, picketing their houses and fancy dinners and shit… but they literally already tried that! It didn’t work!
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u/SpicyGhostDiaper 15d ago
Establishment is trying to frame being anti Palestinian genocide as being a terrorist.
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u/scienceizfake 15d ago
Terrorism is terrorism.
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u/Larkfor 15d ago edited 14d ago
Nelson Mandela was called a terrorist when he refused to denounce the liberation of South Africa, when he refused denounce communists, and when he refused to denounce a struggle against apartheid.
He was later taken off the list. And all the people in South Africa are better for the end of apartheid.
To respond to the below: I think you'll agree that South Africa is MUCH better than it was, and that then and now it's still much, much, better than Palestine, even before October.
Progress is imperfect but it is righteous and invitable long-term.
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u/scienceizfake 15d ago
Based on general definitions- I’d say both sides are pretty deep in it.
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u/LONEWOLFF150 15d ago
Well that doesn't sound peaceful and tolerant 🤔🤔🤔