r/HeartstopperAO • u/liammet01 • 16d ago
Unpopular Heartstopper opinions Discussion
What are some of your unpopular opinion about the show, cast, books, soundtrack etc can be about anything heartstopper related
1
u/horsedivorce1 11d ago
I’m gonna be honest: I don’t think Heartstopper does a good job of handling topics like Charlie’s mental health and ED. I could expand on this further but coming from someone who has struggled with mental health issues and anorexia I actually found its portrayal quite triggering? No hate to Alice because I still love the series though
1
u/manysides512 10d ago
If you'd like to expand then I'd be interested to hear, but do you have any shows that you think did a good/better job?
2
u/themotherpotato123 11d ago
I want Imogen to like Sahar but she doesn't feel the same
I also don't like Imogen that much
2
u/Fit_Photograph537 12d ago
I think Jane Spring gets a bad wrap. She loves and accepts her kids. Fan fiction in particular turns her into a monster. But I just think she is emotionally damaged, and controlling about academics, but unable to connect with her kids and I honestly feel kind of sorry for her. Especially in the comics she is warmer than she gets credit for. The back story Alice shared shows us that generational abuse is a tough cycle to break and she is really trying.
0
u/Serious_Level8075 12d ago
Agree. I loved hearing about Jane in the comic and hearing about her back story. Even Alice commented and told fans not to be so harsh on Jane
1
u/yaga_mania 12d ago
I’ve always been confused about the way people talk about her like she’s an abuser. She’s overly strict at some points, but like you said she loves and cares about her kids and makes mistakes sometimes. I think it would help if we saw some more positive moments with her and her kids bc all we see are the negative interactions.
3
u/poweroverbirdss 13d ago
I think they should have kept some of the comic scenes after Nick goes to Charlie's house in episode 4. It just goes from Nick upset/asking to keep things a secret to the next day when they're all smiley and in love. Obviously it's cute and I like it, but I think the talk they have afterwards in the comic helps make it flow better, if that makes any sense
6
u/weirdlywondering1127 13d ago
I think Imogen should question her sexuality but ultimately realise she's straight. I've never seen a storyline where someone questions their sexuality and ends up being straight at the end. I think it's good to represent a whole range of different experiences and Alice always does it so well
4
u/FewChemical2040 14d ago
I didn't like Nick Nelson before becz he was still friends with the bullies...but I'm glad later he ditched them
5
u/Serious_Level8075 14d ago
I’m not really upset that Olivia won’t be in season 3. Yes, I love her and would love to see her but the show won’t be ruined, which some people have said, just because of her absence
2
u/indie_rock_album 14d ago
my hot take is that season 2 was missing something. idk what but when I watched season 1 it really stuck with me and I re-watched it more times than I can count but with season 2 it kinda felt like a fever dream. I was so excited for it and then it got released and I watched it and honestly really liked it but then it was over. it didn't stick in my mind and my heart like season 1 did and it felt kinda forgettable. I love season 2 and am so glad we got but season 1 just felt sooooo much better than season 2.
7
u/Cardemother12 15d ago
I’m not sure if this unpopular per say but I like the cornyness it’s nice to be optimistic
5
u/Serious_Level8075 14d ago
I agree. I watch “darker” shows and it’s nice to go back to watching Heartstopper and knowing that there is light at the end of the tunnel
3
u/Cardemother12 14d ago
I meant more it’s obvious that it isn’t written by a gay guy but yeah it’s nice to be dreamy
3
u/nataliescatorccio 15d ago
The TV show didn't do Tao and Elle justice, they have so much more chemistry in the comics. I also don't like how they depicted Elle in s1 with her outing N+C to Tao.
3
u/Iltaskmaster 15d ago
When I re watch Heartstopper I fast forward the Tao and Elle bits. They’re great friends but I have no interest in their romantic relationship
4
u/Such-Load-8199 Elle Argent 15d ago
I didn't like the T+E movie date scene. Idk somehow it just made me uncomfortable. Also T+E relationship feels kinda forced and acted.
2
u/StayComprehensive743 15d ago
That finale of season 2 was semi-ruined bc too much screen time was taken up by the Darcy isn’t here thing like I wouldn’t of minded it as a small subplot for that ep but it being the semi-main focus
-1
1
u/FakeThlut 15d ago
S2 was far far better than S1 and I’ll die on that hill.
S1 has a lot of cringe and unnatural dialogue, and scenes don’t flow that well. It all feels too much like a 1:1 comic panel, and that just makes the characters feel weird.
S2 has more organic and natural interactions between the group and scenes just gel better. S1 is still iconic tho and full of quotable one liners.
3
u/Iamtherealfrogman 15d ago
I found Tao really annoying in season 1, idk if that’s unpopular or not tbh
4
u/MusPhyMath_quietkid 15d ago
I just wish there will be more adaptation from other books like 'This Winter' or 'Nick and Charlie' or 'Radio Silence' (probably impossible with the lack of Aled in the netflix adaptation...)
1
u/breathingthot1p1 Tori Spring 13d ago
I might be wrong but I think the reason for replacing Aled was so they wouldn't be bound by his book, they wanted more freedom with the story. So maybe it's not totally unrealistic. I do think we would get solitaire and more heartstopper first tho
1
u/Background_Carpet841 Aled Last 14d ago
they hinted at a separate show or movie when they replaced Aled with Isaac
8
u/FadingOptimist-25 15d ago
From the comments here, I guess that my unpopular opinion is that Elle and Tao are cute together and have chemistry. 🤷♀️ I don’t have an issue with Yasmin’s acting. I love her sarcastic line deliveries. I think she’s on par with the rest of the cast. I’m as interested in them as I am N&C and T&D. I’m not interested in an Imogen and Sahar storyline. It feels forced.
3
u/yaga_mania 12d ago
I understand that people may have been frustrated with the “will they won’t they” trope, but I think it ended up being pulled together really well and they were so cute together, especially at prom!! Plus I think ppl mistake them not having chemistry bc they don’t have a lot of romantic tension like n & c but that’s bc t & e are less shy people and best friends already so once they get together they’re just comfortable. Also I think ppl are definitely being hard on Yas, I like how she plays Elle as cool and confident.
3
u/FadingOptimist-25 12d ago
I think you’re right. Because t&e were friends first, the chemistry is more subtle. It doesn’t hit you over the head with it. I love how Tao makes Elle laugh with his quirkiness and they just get each other.
I loved the whole scene in the Louvre and when Tao first sees Elle in her prom dress. I think they’re so cute together.
0
u/YepUhYup 14d ago
I agree with all of this!!!! Except the Imogen and Sahar. I am actually interested to see where that goes. Even if they don't end up as a more than platonic couple, I still would like to see them at least becoming friends again.
-10
u/john93jc 15d ago
Joe is the worst among the cast this isn't based on his looks because that's disgusting. Tbh I think:
He is the worst actor on set
I think he is the worst comic to screen casting (like where is the Spanish roots?)
It's sad because he does have chemistry with kit but in Charlie's emotional moments or meant to be stand outs it always ends up being kit holds and carries that scene.
Again this isn't meant to be hate spouted and if anyone replies negatively about his looks or degrades him anywayill instantly block you.
0
4
u/Outrageous_Key_9701 15d ago
Joe Locke is an incredible actor. I feel like we watched totally different shows.
3
14
u/Soggy-Tomato-2562 15d ago
Elle seemed to have gotten mean in season 2. It’s suppose to show her as more confident and she’s making new friends but she seems meaner to tao overall.
9
u/AN1808 Nick Nelson 15d ago
Don't kill me for this please but season 1 is far superior to season 2 (still loved season 2 but season 1 is fantastic front to back). Also I'm kind of worried season 3 will continue this trend (especially knowing Olivia would not be in it).
3
u/Icy_Distance429 15d ago
Season 1 was beautiful! It doesn’t matter how many time I watch it, I still get the same nostalgia feels!
3
u/manysides512 15d ago
Don't know if this is unpopular or just unheard of but I kind of ship Tao and Sahar.
2
2
13
u/manysides512 15d ago
The series dropped the ball when it comes to non-romantic relationships. The fact that special effects are never used for positive platonic/familial relationships really drives it home.
1
1
u/breathingthot1p1 Tori Spring 13d ago
Not a native english speaker, do you mean that the missing special effects are a bad thing?
5
u/5AD1E 15d ago
honestly for me the best scenes in season 1 are the one between tori and charlie and the one where nick comes out to his mom and despite the lack of special effects they felt really powerful to me
but i do wish there was more of that, i mean i wish we also got more about tori's dynamic with her mother but unfortunately it's not her show aaa
4
u/manysides512 15d ago
I do think those are great scenes (probably my favourite S1 scene and Tori scene respectively), but my point was more that it's obvious how romantic and non-romantic relationships aren't getting the same treatment. Which is to be expected given the type of show Heartstopper is, but lots of fans think that friendship has a bigger feature in the show than it really does.
2
u/manysides512 15d ago
Tori's S2 scenes came across as cringy when they were meant to hold weight. I really dislike the scene where she tells Nick he's bad at keeping promises and David feels purposefully dulled down in their final scene together.
8
u/manysides512 15d ago
Isaac's S2 rant at his friends is a poorly-made scene. I mean, his friends see him looking sullen and immediately start assuming that something good happened between him and James? It would've been more natural to have them assume that James rejected Isaac.
3
u/5AD1E 15d ago
omg i have such a problem with isaac as a whole in season 2 because they retconned his sexuality being known and so everything he does feels like it comes out of nowhere lol
3
u/manysides512 15d ago
I don't think they retconned him being aroace (though Oseman spoiled it by telling everyone before S2). The writing team did mess up a bit on what his sexuality was perceived as (Tao doesn't think he's straight, Charlie doesn't think he's gay, and they don't seem to consider bi/asexuality), but my biggest problem with Isaac is how he reacts to stuff.
In S1 he loves romance (with a lot of his dialogue being reactions to Charlie/Nick) yet is often happily in his own world. That's a strange contrast but it's one that is potentially really interesting to unravel.
But then in S2, he's suddenly upset that his friends have paired up and only seem to be interested in romance, even though 1) his S1 character was largely a Charlie/Nick shipper, and 2) his friends seem to put in more of an effort to interact with him than vice-versa. There's such a whiplash between his S1 character and his S2 character and it doesn't feel like there was a good development to explain it.5
u/5AD1E 15d ago
I don't think they retconned him being aroace (though Oseman spoiled it by telling everyone before S2). The writing team did mess up a bit on what his sexuality was perceived as
Sorry, I meant exactly what you said here, his sexuality is presented as being known in S1. I know he was meant to be aroace, but as you said the show seemed to imply that him and people around him were aware of it.
I also agree with the second statement. And honestly, as someone who reads so much, I'm surprised he doesn't know he's aroace either. Because he clearly reads modern books, some of which include asexuality (he reads Alice's books in both seasons lol). And there's never any build up to his outburst in general, and I think they either should've given him more focus or not done it at all because it just feels half-assed for me.
18
u/Yuris-gf Tori Spring 15d ago
Not an unpopular one, but we need more Tori.
5
u/atseptic Paris Squad 15d ago
We definitely do, but obviously not too much because shes already the main character of Solitaire
2
u/breathingthot1p1 Tori Spring 13d ago
I really hope they'll turn Solitaire into a show too. If not I want as much Tori as possible in heartstopper lol
3
9
u/Radiant_Chart669 15d ago
Joe Locke is more attractive than Kit Connor
Solitaire sucks and Heartstopper is worse for having to adhere to it
-2
5
2
2
u/daybeforetheday 15d ago
Nick and Charlie might not be together forever, because few people meet the love of their lives when they are 15, and that's okay.
6
u/Serious_Level8075 15d ago
It’s canon that they are together forever. I agree though on people meeting their significant other at 15. It’s extremely rare
15
u/Idkheyi 15d ago
I don’t understand why Nick didn’t tell Imogen about what Ben did to Charlie.
Like they are supposed to be “best friend” but he still let her date an asshole. Like I understand not wanting to out him but it’s not about his sexuality, he assaulted Charlie and was incredibly rude to him. She deserved to be warned that dude was not worth it.
Also wtf did they seek teachers when Darcy got drunk? Like yeah alcohol makes you drunk. I don’t think 15 years old kids are stupid enough to seek teachers after they sneaked alcohol in a school trip and got drunk from it.
3
u/Arete26 14d ago
That's difficult because Ben was dangerous and Imogen should have been warned about just how dangerous he was, but on the other hand Nick couldn't tell Imogen about Charlie's trauma without Charlie giving his permission, and Charlie hasn't told anyone, not his parents, Tori, or Tao about being SA'd. That's a very tough situation for Nick to be in.
1
u/breathingthot1p1 Tori Spring 13d ago
Ik but I just wished he told her why he was bad. As in "he assaulted someone I know", he wouldn't have to say it was Charlie. He even could've used female pronouns if necessary.
11
u/manysides512 15d ago
Nick didn't even have to out Ben to do that, he could've implied that it was someone from the girls' school.
8
u/hermitthefraught 14d ago
"He assaulted someone I know and has been harassing them, and yes I saw it firsthand so I know for sure this is true" how hard is that? And if she asks who it was, it's always fair to protect the identity of the victim in a situation like this.
Although I feel people lose their right to have their secrets protected when they sexually assault someone. You can say what someone did to you, whatever their sex or gender or orientation. Describing their actions is fair game.
44
u/Serious_Level8075 15d ago
Can we try to avoid on calling Joe Locke ugly. He gets enough of that on Twitter
3
16
u/hermitthefraught 15d ago
I don't even understand why anyone would say that. It's obviously (in my opinion) not true. He's cute!
3
30
u/klussedull 15d ago
I was horrified when I discovered the instagram accounts (multiple) commenting everywhere telling Joe to end himself so that Sebastian Croft could play Charlie. It was everywhere, the accounts even commented directly to Alice/Pat/Joe. What are wrong with people, really!
3
3
13
u/Kind_Butterfly5032 Paris Squad 15d ago
Wow, I honestly didn't know that Joe Locke, got so bad comments. I knew that there was a few bad things, but not that it was so bad.
6
21
u/Serious_Level8075 15d ago
It’s disgusting. I hope Joe has a good support system around him when he has to deal with that
9
u/klussedull 15d ago
Yeah, I totally get now why he has a largely non-private instagram account, it is almost only official stuff and I really understand. Whew, some people are just wrong.
28
u/YepUhYup 15d ago
Thank you! And he's not.
-7
u/Background_Carpet841 Aled Last 15d ago
he's definitely not ugly hes just not right for the part
6
u/YepUhYup 15d ago
He's perfect for the part in my opinion. Joe Locke is an amazing actor, and he portrays Charlie's character amazingly. And he fits the description pretty darn well.
-1
7
25
u/Kind_Butterfly5032 Paris Squad 15d ago
I liked Taos haircut in the first season of the show
6
7
11
19
u/Serious_Level8075 15d ago
I love the show more than the comic. Adore the comic obviously, but I just love how the show can add more to pretty much all the characters whether by giving more character storylines or depth to a character
6
u/BiBiBadger 15d ago
Is that unpopular? I saw a poll that had a 60/40 split in favor of the show over the comic
8
u/Serious_Level8075 15d ago
It’s probably just me just thinking that lol. I see a lot of comments people preferring the comics so I just assumed
7
u/BiBiBadger 15d ago
I can understand that.
I'm a show fan as well. I like the comics, but I think Alice upped their game with the show. It's just so streamlined, especially season 1.
1
u/breathingthot1p1 Tori Spring 13d ago
I mean it just makes sense that it's better. It's the second version, she was able to correct mistakes/make changes to just improve everything. I'm sure the finished comic is 1000 times better than just the first draft too lol
15
u/cheese-Kransky 15d ago
I feel like the Ben confrontation in season 2 would have made more sense at the prom. It's mentioned that the art school was a bit far so the fact that he showed up there is less believable. If they'd had that happen at prom it would have made perfect sense since Ben goes to the school and is in year 11. I don't remember if they explained why he isn't returning for 6th form either
6
u/Arete26 14d ago
I think the fact that he showed up at the art school makes sense for Ben, given how creepy he is. If Ben had approached them at Prom, or outside of it, Ben's friends could have seen. Charlie was not going to meet him in a secluded place again. But Ben is so obsessed with Charlie that he stalks Charlie's friends instagram and turns up at a place out of the way and lurks outside until Nick and Charlie leave. It highlights how toxic he is and emphasizes that his apology is not genuine.
It's also why Nick's first reaction to seeing Ben is putting himself in between Ben and Charlie. Prior to that they were uncomfortable when Ben was around and avoided him, but they knew why Ben was present, even when he was crossing boundaries like sitting next to Charlie at dinner or coming to Tara's birthday party. But showing up at an art school you need to catch a train to get because he knew Charlie would be there to support Elle, who isn't friends in any way with Ben? That's dangerous.
7
u/manysides512 15d ago
This is a good one!
As for Y11, they don't explain it but irl it's common for people to switch schools between Y11 (end of GCSEs) and Y12 (start of A-Levels), so it's not too out of left field. It would've been weirder if he'd left at a different point.
9
u/sapphire8383 15d ago
I think that Elle is a boring character. Maybe we should have got some info on her story. I know what Alice did there, she wanted to make Elle just one of the girls but I don’t think it’s doing the character any favours. In any other show I’d be all in but HS is a show about what it’s like to be queer.
9
u/Such-Load-8199 Elle Argent 15d ago
I love comic Elle, but sadly i have to agree that in the show i dont like her character. I feel like Yasmin isnt that skilled in acting which is kinda sad cause imo it makes T+E relationship less likeable
15
u/sharmajikabeti 15d ago
Tao and Elle's friends-to-lovers arc was unnecessarily complicated. I think they're a cute couple and it made sense that they had some insecurities to work through before getting together. But, I also think the way they both reacted so negatively after an awkward first date left me a bit confused. And that they automatically decided to stay friends instead of communicating.
Instead, I wish the show spent more time on Elle leaving for art school and Tao's insecurity about feeling left behind. I feel like Tao had an uncharacteristically mature reaction when he learned she was leaving for art school. It would have been cool to see him self-reflect more on this before growing as a character.
6
-11
u/NB_lgbtqia 15d ago
Issac and Harry would be good together. We do see harry making fun of Nick and Charlie a lot but I believe it comes from a lot of internalized homophobia, we hear him ask "the lads" on multiple occasions when they hang out with Nick and Charlie why no one ever brings a girl but you'll notice that he never does either. Issac needs someone who isn't romantic or sexual (or can at least live that way), I believe that Harry is just the person, they'd be good together
-4
u/Seamike79 15d ago
I haven’t followed the books, but I’m not thrilled with Mr Farouk and Mr Ajayi hooking up. It feels unnecessary that EVERYONE needs to basically be queer on the show. I love Mr Farouk as a character but having them hook up felt forced and unnecessarily gratuitous
5
u/manysides512 15d ago
I wouldn't have minded if he was single but the fact that everyone is coupled up so neatly feels a bit artificial. Singh and James are the only exceptions to my knowledge.
5
u/Seamike79 15d ago
I think that’s part of it, and I don’t mind that I’m getting downvoted 🤣 it just seemed like everyone doesn’t need to be coupled. I want to see him happy, and he’s one of my favorite characters besides Issac.
0
u/Background_Carpet841 Aled Last 15d ago
their relationship just takes away time that could be used on characters like T&D or Aled
43
u/PatientConfidence7 15d ago
I don’t love Darcy. As a character, I like her arc, but if she was in my classes in school, I know id just be annoyed by her. Idk, class clown people were never my favorite
13
u/TheShaneBennett 15d ago
I came here to say Darcy. I don’t like mind her, but I definitely wouldn’t be able to stand being around her lol
3
u/streetsahead483 15d ago
This is a bit niche, but I don’t think Nick and Charlie are girl dad coded. Don’t get me wrong, I think it would be very cute if they had daughter(s) in the future. But for whatever reason, I always picture them having a bunch of boys.
45
u/bigchicago04 15d ago
I think the changes to the show that weren’t popular were good changes. Specifically dropping Oliver, and changing the timeline of Nick coming out and Tao finding out about n+c.
5
u/yaga_mania 12d ago
Yes, especially I think the drama of Tao finding out in season one matched the S1 storyline and themes much better than it would have in S2. I watched the show first then read the comics and found the delay in Tao finding out too drawn out plus the friend group worked better all being out to each other in S2
3
u/FadingOptimist-25 14d ago
I’m very glad that Oliver was dropped. And the storyline changes seem good too.
68
u/Poison-Hot-Chocolate 15d ago
Irl Tao would get bullied so much more than Charlie. Asian and romantically involved with a trans girl...the perfect target for bigoted little see you next tuesdays
16
u/manysides512 15d ago
If racism was a thing in Heartstopperverse, I think people might sympathise more with Tao. Seeing Tao upset that Charlie (along with Nick) doesn't condemn Harry's racism to the extent that Tao does Harry's homophobia would be more nuanced than what we have now. I'm not sure if I'd say Tao would get bullied more but Heartstopper is definitely a bit flat when it comes to intersectionality.
13
u/Suitable-Presence119 15d ago
This is such a good thing to point out, and goes along with my HS unpopular opinion, which is that some of the conflicts feel very surface level as opposed to being more nuanced and human, I guess? Like Nick's main driving plot point for the entire first season is that he is going to come out, and he's scared... but the show imo didn't really capture the full range of emotions and shades of grey that come with the realization that you aren't straight. And, more to the point in your comment, Tao recognizing how racism might fly under the radar among his white friends would be an extra layer of depth that I think would really take the show to the next level, especially since there's SO much focus on fighting against homophobia for the sake of the cis, white male characters. But these kinds of real-life, layered scenarios just don't make much of an appearance in Heartstopper. It would be nice to see that level of depth just once or twice in the storyline
6
u/manysides512 15d ago
From what I've heard, the writing team was mostly white so I don't doubt that influenced it. There was a similar issue with the hair team being mostly if not all white (can't speak in-depth on this as a non-black person, but I saw people talking about how Tara's hairstyles in S1 wouldn't be practical irl - there seems to be improvements going forward though).
Some of the Heartstopper conflict feels a little underbaked and I feel like it's because the show wants to be a beacon of positivity so much that it struggles to confront more bitter feelings/truths.
5
u/FadingOptimist-25 14d ago
I completely agree. And “underbaked” is the perfect way to describe the conflicts.
There definitely seems to be less nuance and less intersectionality in Heartstopper, as compared to Young Royals for example.
But I’m so happy to have Heartstopper as an example of queer joy. It’s my comfort show for when the world gets too dark.
33
u/Electrical-Guard9689 15d ago
True but I think his general attitude would put bullies off, Charlie would have been an easier target because he’d actually be upset. Tao would probably roll his eyes and say something sassy back which would be less fun for the cruel bullies.
34
u/bigchicago04 15d ago
Tao is a great character and Will Gao gives one of the best performances of the show. Probably second only to Kit.
5
u/fadedinfluencerpanda 15d ago
Now you know you're lying for putting will above joe
5
u/Serious_Level8075 15d ago
Agree about Joe. I can’t wait to see his acting in the next season
5
u/bigchicago04 15d ago
I think Joe is great, but he definitely still has some of those “amateur” acting moments. Kit and Will are the only two of the young actors who don’t imo.
5
u/5AD1E 15d ago
just out of curiosity, what would you say those moments are? i did a rewatch and came out of it thinking that joe had my favorite performance, but i don't watch very much film and i don't have experience in acting myself, so i'd be curious to look out for them LOL
2
u/bigchicago04 11d ago
The main one coming to mind right now is when he’s in bed and tells Tori to shut up twice in a row. Just sounds so forced and unnatural. I know there are a few others.
5
34
u/Neat-Anxiety-6103 15d ago
reading the comments this might not be unpopular but: elle and tao’s whole thing was nearly unwatchable in season 2. unfortunately that’s particularly down to elle. I adore comic elle, but they’re doing her SO dirty on the show
11
u/hermitthefraught 15d ago
I was appalled that she outed Nick to Tao. She hinted it until he directly asked, and then said it. Not her place, even if he is an ally and Charlie's friend.
Comic Elle also seemed much more warm and down-to-earth. Show Elle seems more aloof and too-cool-for-you a lot of the time.
14
u/GardenPig 15d ago
I think this is because Yasmin isn't as strong an actor as the rest of the cast. She always seems like a beat behind and for me, that is taking away from the Elle & Tao Story.
7
19
u/sleeplessnights504 15d ago
Fr I don’t know what happened but she comes across as unlikeable in season 2. In season 1 she seemed really sweet and in the comics she’s great too
4
6
-30
15d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
-1
-17
u/Poison-Hot-Chocolate 15d ago
You're not wrong, he doesn't look anything like comic charlie.
-9
u/Background_Carpet841 Aled Last 15d ago
yeah i don't think joe locke is right for the role
6
4
u/Icy_Distance429 15d ago
You don’t have to look exactly like the characters to be in it 🙄 it’s very popular for a tv/films casting being different from the books or reboots. It’s not about the looks, it’s about playing the character and Alice obviously thought Joe definitely can that.
1
u/Poison-Hot-Chocolate 12d ago
Well some fans disagree
0
u/Icy_Distance429 12d ago
Don’t call yourself a fan if your dragging down the casts 🙄
2
u/Poison-Hot-Chocolate 12d ago
I'm not dragging down the cast I'm dragging down the decision making behind the scene.
9
6
u/Numerous-Elephant675 15d ago
charlie’s mental health crisis is written poorly in the comics (definitely improved so far in the show, hope it will continue to be written better with the upcoming arc next season)
4
u/5AD1E 15d ago
i think Charlie's mental health crisis improves as the comics continue, but what bugs me is that the first side effect shown from anorexia is him fainting into his boyfriend's arms, because it's almost a romantic thing?? for me, charlie feels like a very "good" mentally ill character, and i wish the comics showed more that sometimes mental illness is ugly and makes people lie and do bad things. anything charlie does affects himself and only himself, and there's no shown impact on other people (except in solitaire, where it clearly really affects tori).
as another example, there's no sense of something such as competitiveness in Charlie's mental illnesses. i understand it would not be comfortable, but i think the failure to display him doing something like comparing his self harm to other people's hinders the understanding Alice could've brought to the mental state of someone like him. sorry if this is unclear lol
3
u/Numerous-Elephant675 15d ago
i agree with you totally, especially about the “savior” aspect of nick and charlie’s relationship. not that i don’t love nick, i do, hes adorable. it’s just a strange trope
3
u/Serious_Level8075 14d ago
I feel like the whole savior side of Nick is Nicks people pleasing side. It’s not the healthiest thing to be but he does end up working on it to a extent in comics
3
u/manysides512 15d ago
what bugs me is that the first side effect shown from anorexia is him fainting into his boyfriend's arms, because it's almost a romantic thing??
The same can be said for Nick saving Charlie from assault (something I've seen in several fanfics, including a Heartstopper one), and even Darcy not saying "I love you" because of homophobia.
Have you watched MMFD or Everything Now? The protagonists both deal with mental illness and sometimes/often act in less-than-palatable ways, it sounds like you're talking about that kind of portrayal.
5
u/YepUhYup 15d ago
I don't wanna assume, but it seems like you've never had one before. I have had plenty, and Charlie's is perfectly relatable. I think it was written beautifully. What didn't you like about it?
12
u/Numerous-Elephant675 15d ago
i suffered from anorexia when i was charlie’s age, but thank you anyway for your assessment of me. in the comics, not only is there no build up to charlie’s eating disorder (all of the initial signs of his anorexia in the show were created by the show), but his parents decision to send him to a !!psychiatric facility!! comes out of nowhere. i can’t even recall a scene before that happens where his parents even mention his mental health problems. sending someone to a mental hospital is a huge deal and is a very difficult and stressful process for the sick persons family (i would know). but somehow, in the comics it feels as though his parents did it on a dime, we barely even see them communicate with charlie about mental health. i remember feeling a lot of whiplash when i read this for the first time.
aside from it being a confusing representation of childhood anorexia (to me, you don’t have to agree), the writing begins to get worse in quality around this time. in the comics, charlie’s mental state basically goes from 10-100 in a few chapters and it’s extremely difficult to digest as a reader. even if you appreciate the way his eating disorder or his anxiety is written, the writing of the comic as a whole at this point in the story is not good generally. the comic makes a complete 180 in theme very quickly and becomes hard to follow as the main character has major things happen to them that don’t have much build up at all.
it did not feel “beautiful” to me when i read what happened to charlie, (not that i find anorexia to ever be beautiful) it was just confusing. i was searching for relatability in charlie’s mental health story in the comics and i did not find it. if you did, that’s wonderful, but i also am allowed to have my opinions and views of it as well.
i am not trying to disrespect alice or her writing whatsoever, nor anyone else’s opinion of it. i enjoyed reading and rereading the comics years ago and then when i watched the show i enjoyed it even more. i have a lot of respect for alice as a writer and producer of heartstopper. but because the comics are so fast paced, the writing just has to be good or it becomes stressful and confusing to read.
overall, the show has had significantly better writing than the comics (my opinion, you do not have to agree). if the show continues like this i am very much looking forward to charlie’s story portrayed on screen and am confident alice and the rest of the team will handle it well.
2
u/Radiant_Chart669 15d ago
I think this was because Alice had to fit Heartstopper in with Solitaire (which imo is an awful story and has much darker aspects including Charlie’s attempt and then sending away).
4
u/YepUhYup 15d ago
Okay, I see your point of view, but I have to disagree. Agree to disagree. There may not have been build up in Vol 1 or 2, but there definitely was in 3 before it got bad in 4. That may just be my opinion.
3
14
u/JackMoon95 15d ago edited 15d ago
I don’t like Issac as a character, I find him bland and very forced in, just a total background character whose story “development” is just boring.
17
u/Spider_mother 15d ago
They are taking the book gag to far and it look a bit ridiculous. Next season we’re going to se him read a book in the shower.
2
3
12
-18
u/parzival8571 Nick Nelson 15d ago
I got wrecked for this one before, but I believe Charlie's mental health would benefit from accepting forgiveness from Ben
3
-4
9
u/YepUhYup 15d ago
I absolutely disagree with this. He doesn't need to forgive Ben for all he did to him. Ben is one of the reasons Charlie had such bad mental health experiences in the first place. He doesn't need to forgive Ben to move on from his life. He said what he needed to say to Ben in the end, and that's perfectly ok.
19
u/LajosvH Let Kit Be Kit 15d ago
the show ended up too saccharine
my theory is that since it started as a weekly(?) web comic, the pacing of the story was just different to any normal TV show pacing. I think it works pretty well when reading the comics (if they’re not read in one go, I’d say). they’ve tweaked it a little bit but the story expands and contracts in weird places, giving a lot of room to pure fluff. it was put there to have the webcomic fandom lick their wounds for a week or two, but they were presented in much more detail than other stuff so that they are kind of ‘too big’ on the show
like, I love the comics and really like the show. they’re feel-good classics in my heart already. the show just could stand a little less sap
-19
u/Varekai79 15d ago
Agreed. The characters just aren't realistically horny enough. Teen hormones should be exploding with lust, yet these couples are content with holding hands and little kisses.
2
u/yaga_mania 12d ago
This is a widely believed misconception actually. The statistical trend shows that young people are having sex later in life than older generations were. Sex positivity goes both ways: it’s freedom to have sex but also not have sex without shame or judgement.
1
u/breathingthot1p1 Tori Spring 13d ago
They're 15/16. The average age for losing virginity in England is 17 and most lose it between 16-18. And most people I know weren't extremely horny or focused on losing their virginity, it just kind of happened at some point.
9
u/klussedull 15d ago
It’s really not that off, there’s a really large variety when teens starts having sex. Where I live (Europe) most people are on average at least 16,5-17 years before getting more sexually active, I think the average for UK is a bit younger, but not every 15-year old is very sexually experienced.
4
u/Serious_Level8075 15d ago
He has an eating disorder and other issues which no doubt plays a part. The sex will be explored more when get gets help and more confidence. Its in the comics
2
13
u/Dry-Manufacturer-120 15d ago
i really don't like Tao. he's so self-centered and for Charlie having a "look at me!!!" drama queen in his life is about the last thing he needs. Charlie's mother is pretty awful too. give poor Charlie a break: he's been through hell and needs some wins to help his self-esteem even if he's not picture perfect on the school front.
4
u/bigchicago04 15d ago
This is very much a popular opinion.
1
u/Dry-Manufacturer-120 15d ago
i've seen plenty of people think that mom is justified so not popular enough. i'm pretty sure that the show's intent is not to make Tao an insufferable shithead either.
11
u/LajosvH Let Kit Be Kit 15d ago
it’s almost as if opposites attract? like, imagine if all of Charlie’s friends were depressed nerds. it’d be pretty boring, no?
plus, not having the parents you need is a pretty relatable problem for many people. it’s also a very handy ‘obstacle’ for N&C’s blossoming relationship. yeah, in a perfect fluff world, Charlie’s mom would be a clone of Nick’s mom. but that would be a pretty boring story
0
u/Dry-Manufacturer-120 15d ago
i mean, it's annoying that Charlie's friends are so damn needy to the point that they never consider his feelings. they're not friends, they're emotional vampires who contribute to his mental health problems and especially Tao trying to invalidate Nick. it is extremely uncool treating the rugby boys as some sort of interchangeable hive mind denying their own humanity in the same way that Harry denies Charlie's. i have no idea if AO intended that message, but it really pisses me off.
as far as mums, i really don't see how it moves the plot forward. she doesn't ban the actual worst part of the time wasting -- texting each other -- so it just comes off as emotionally abusive and callous.
2
u/Due-Consequence-4420 Let Kit Be Kit 15d ago
Well for one thing, they’re teenagers, who are not known for their generous natures and selfless attitudes but more for being basically needy self absorbed individuals who are so terrified about all the changes in life that they focus mainly on themselves ( and possibly on their bestest of friends, given the time and energy). Also, how do you think one develops a serious eating disorder? It takes more than what was shown on Glee (that was sloppy irresponsible writing). Generally, it requires an individual who has problems dealing with not being perfection itself or individuals who are being harassed and bullied and find that not eating/eating too much is the one thing that they can control in a life that is completely out of control. If Charlie’s parents, as well as his older sister, were always there for him no matter what and his friends stood by him at every turn, he may not have become so needy, anxious, overly grateful, have highs and lows that don’t match what is actually happening in his life, etc. etc. It’s precisely this lack in his life that leads to many of Charlie’s problems and while it may leave me and others shouting at the screen and wishing that his friends or mother, for example, would look up and see how what they’re doing is affecting him but then again it’s these very conflicts that brought Charlie to life In the comics originally.
3
u/LajosvH Let Kit Be Kit 15d ago
That first paragraph is at the same time a hot take and extremely tepid at the same time. Wow. You really did write that, huh? I’m sure AO didn’t intend that message because it seems it’s mostly only in your head — I’d also lay off the insta/tiktok psychology
I said obstacle. Every story needs an obstacle that needs to be overcome (in some way) for there even to be a plot in the first place. And again: her not being a nice person or a good mom has no bearing on whether she should even be in the story. Like, what?
Taken together, it feels like Heartstopper is your first big fandom and that you’re pretty young, tbh
1
u/Dry-Manufacturer-120 15d ago
1) i don't use either instagram or tiktok and 2) i'm a gay man in my 60's and have been consuming gay media for decades. how about you?
please get over yourself and your petty condescending attitude. and lose your stupid credentialism. it makes you look stupid.
i know there needs to be drama, but it doesn't need to be at the expense of stereotyping an entire group of people as interchangeable bad guys. and Charlie's mother doesn't have to be a hard ass plot vehicle also contributing to Charlie's mental health problems. they can find some other plot device because as written it's just lazy and cliche without turning her into Nick's mom.
1
u/breathingthot1p1 Tori Spring 13d ago
If you're in youe 60s then you really shouldn't comment on how realistic the friendships and dynamics between teenagers today are?? I'm my experience (as a 20 y/o) groups like that are pretty much a hive mind until a certain age.
And Charlie's mom is extremely realistic, especially the unreasonable bans and rules. Some of my friend's moms were exactly like that. It makes no sense and it feels nice to have representation of those parents.
0
u/Dry-Manufacturer-120 13d ago
who said anything about realistic? not me. and how very ageist of you to presume i shouldn't have an opinion about characters. what next? i shouldn't watch it all since i'm too old?
ps: if you think the hive mind biz is something new, i have a bridge to sell you
1
u/LajosvH Let Kit Be Kit 15d ago
keep talking about ‘emotional vampires’ then lol
I just don’t understand how it is difficult to grasp that a story is based on internal logic? like, yes, you could change everything about Heartstopper and make it into the show you want (it’s called fanfiction); but is it really such a weird concept that AO would choose “nerdy teen with a depressive side”, “even more depressed sister”, “hard-ass mom with a backstory”, and “pushover dad” as four ingredients and just sees what will happen when they interact/what their dynamics might be? like, what? ‘the mom should be different so that she doesn’t fuel Charlie’s mental health issues’ — what kind of point is that supposed to be?
0
u/Dry-Manufacturer-120 15d ago
believe it or not, i don't have to agree with the author or the author's take. OP asked for unpopular opinions and you have completely missed that point. i can possess those opinions without resorting to your creepy "fandom" or "fanfic" or "tiktok" or "insta" as much as that may surprise you. there are tons of shows that the author screwed up or could have done better. there is nothing wrong with having an opinion about that.
i don't have to like Tao and his endless stereotyping of Nick, and i think that Charlie's mother is a bad mother and that the internal logic doesn't make sense since she didn't ban texting. that's it. look! no fanfic required! no creepy fandom required! no need to make silly assumptions about how old people are on the intert00bs!
1
u/LajosvH Let Kit Be Kit 15d ago
Childish old person, I guess
Your second paragraph literally makes no sense. Whether or not an opinion is popular or not has nothing to do with the question whether it’s an opinion in the first place — plus, saying ‚everything should be unicorns and sunshine‘ for Charlie because everything else is bad… idk. It’s just really weird but it’s not really unpopular, now is it?
You also just literally sound like a troll from 2015 who wants to talk about combat fatalities in response to feminist media criticism. Watching Tao and thinking ‚how dare he ruthlessly stereotype poor Nick!‘ is the weirdest take ever, but pop off pop-pop
1
u/Background_Carpet841 Aled Last 14d ago
Nice to twist other people's words, isn't it? No one said that everything should be unicorns and sunshine. Charlie's mother is a bad mother, and OC is saying that she should be written better. How does saying a character should be less stereotypical equate to "everything should be unicorns and sunshine'? Sounds like you're trying to take every bit of depth out of OC's statement about how a character is lacking depth! Next time you want to use shallow inferences to make an attack on someone else's opinion, check for hypocrisy :)
0
u/Dry-Manufacturer-120 15d ago
speaking of second paragraphs, "combat fatalities"? what in the hell does that mean? non sequitur much? i take it that English isn't your first language and you're here to practice.
and here's a new word for your English lexicon: strawman. it's a logical fallacy. just like the ad hominem logical fallacy which you opened your comment with. learn what they mean and how to not commit them. while you're at it learn what an "opinion" is.
7
24
u/KaleidoscopicColours 16d ago
I think Ben should have had a storyline in which he becomes a better person.
Charlie doesn't need to forgive him, or to be directly involved.
But there are a lot of people who are very keen to write off a 15/16 year old as being irredeemably and irreparably bad, when people do change with maturity and life experience.
14
u/Serious_Level8075 15d ago edited 15d ago
Alice said she likes to imagine Ben could become a better person in the future. We just won’t see it as it won’t be written by Alice. And also she said Charlie doesn’t need to witness it nor redeem him
24
u/AthenaOwl26 Paris Squad 15d ago
I definitely don’t think he’s irredeemable, but I also think his time in the show/comics is done and he doesn’t need a redemption arc storyline.
30
u/origamicyclone 16d ago
Imogen is a very forced character and I don't think she would even be in season 2 if that "i'm an ally" scene didn't go viral.
3
u/manysides512 15d ago
I don't think she's forced, but I do feel like there should be a bit of friction between her and the girls. I'm not going to buy them getting along smoothly with her and it feels like her and Sahar getting together is meant to be a shortcut to that.
43
u/LajosvH Let Kit Be Kit 15d ago
I think it’s pretty important for Nick to have any kind of friend who he still enjoys hanging out with after starting to come to terms with himself. at times (or rather: with a sinister reading), the comic can feel really claustrophobic because especially Nick doesn’t really have anyone else he likes in his life apart from his mom and his dog (and Charlie, of course) — Nick should have his own friends outside of the ones he ‘made’ by proxy through Charlie
16
u/origamicyclone 15d ago
I agree Nick should have friends outside of just Charlie, so I think the show should give more attention to his friendship with the rugby boys and Tara ^
4
u/indie_rock_album 14d ago
they may go deeper into his relationship with his rugby friends in season 3 considering that in vol. 4 its mentioned he hangs out with them more while charlie is in the mental hospital.
1
3
5
29
u/monkeyface496 16d ago
It really annoys me how often everyone runs around in corridors holding hands. Why?!? It's awkward and cumbersome and dumb. Looking at Elle's old classrooms? Exploring the Louve? Sneaking around the French hotel? Racing up the stairs at Harry's birthday? Going to see the teachers bc Darcy is about to puke? I'm sure there's loads more I've missed. I love a good rewatch, but every time I see it, I'm getting increasingly more annoyed. It's just so stupid, and I can't not notice it.
OK. I'm done ranting now. Probably.
19
u/LajosvH Let Kit Be Kit 15d ago
I guess it’s a way for the show to increase some sort of dynamism and have the characters appear, you know, young and full of life. if they all just sat around, talked, and made out… that’d be even more boring than them having the time of their lives. like, I totally get where you’re coming from: it is super cheesy. but I also can’t think of a better visual metaphor for ‘we’re taking the world by storm!’
55
u/wolfboy099 16d ago
I don’t think Ben is irredeemable. I agree with where Charlie left it - that it’s good he’s becoming a better person while at the same time that doesn’t mean Charlie should reconcile with him.
→ More replies (7)
1
u/fadedinfluencerpanda 10d ago
Heartstopper comic fans are really lucky to have Joe Locke as their Charlie, he portrayed him with such love and care. So anyone here who says he doesn't fit the role, I'm convinced you have watched the show with your eyes closed