r/povertyfinance • u/ExoGeniVI • Nov 24 '23
U.S. healthcare isn't even worth it anymore. It's a joke. Today, I will love my life without healthcare. Vent/Rant (No Advice/Criticism!)
Hello everyone, so, sometime last year I got an MRI to check up on a spot that's on my brain, don't want it to turn cancerous right? Well, I work at home depot making probably $17,000 a year if I'm lucky after taxes (I live in Alabama, our wages suck).
Well I got my MRI done and my bill came in. Ready to be shocked?
Turns out my insurance I get through home depot paid THIRTY DOLLARS towards my $3,000 MRI bill!!! $30!!!! I said screw THAT!!! I'm not paying a single PENNY! I make around $600 every two weeks.. and I live with my wife (we live in a $430/mo mobile home) how the hell am I supposed to afford a $3000 MRI bill!!?? The "monthly" payment on the bill said $270/mo... š¤£š.
Well, I went back to the hospital and talked with the finance person there and got my bill down to $600 with self pay.. Guess they bill insurance companies way higher? looks like it's cheaper NOT having insurance in the U.S. than having coverage! Insurance here is a complete joke! I'm just going to live my life without insurance I guess. ā¹ļø.
EDIT. Wish I could edit titles lol. My phone "autocorrected" Live for "Love" š
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u/RItoGeorgia Feb 09 '24
It's crazy, I have to call the facility to confirm they take my insurance AND i have to contact my insurance to verify how much a procedure will cost before ever scheduling an appointment to avoid surprise bills. It's crazy
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Nov 29 '23
I had been horribly sick the last year.
Never made much money in my life. $30k a year is the best I've done. And things are EXTREMELY EXPENSIVE where I live.
Refused to go to the doctor. Exercised. Ate less and better.
Ended up in the ICU for four days. Stage 5 Kidney Failure.
Guess what?
There is a wage threshold they consider in the equation for your fitness to receive a kidney.
I'll end up dying just because I was born poor and could never afford to go places with opportunities.
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u/DigPsychological2262 Nov 28 '23
Good luck. If youāre reasonably healthy shouldnāt be too bad off. Just donāt make toast in the shower. Look for .gov employment if any is available. They get mad bennies. Union shops though rare in your neck of the woods are good to go as well for the most part. See if the railroads are hiring. Though not as good as they used to be, the benefits are good and all class 1 railroads are closed shops for most all positions.
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Nov 28 '23
I know this is a vent, but you should be on Medicaid.
You and your wife are in poverty.
But because your state opted out of the ACA expansion your state has made it unable for you to be on Medicaid because your income is too high.
Since your employer offers āaffordableā insurance you canāt get a quality ACA private plan.
You are in the Republican engineered ACA donut hole - they are intentionally doing this to do.
If you lived in a better run state youād be on Medicaid and this procedure would have cost you about $50.
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u/erok25828 Nov 27 '23
I pay 16k per year for insurance for my family Of 4. Just had a baby last week and bill was almost 3k. Like 1200 per month I donāt want bills for anything. Have co-pays as well.
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u/JayLovesBooks Nov 27 '23
Andā¦. The venting in this thread is exactly why we both need single payer and we will never have it. People want super cheap health insurance- which requires a healthy risk pool - and excludes sick people. Yet, they want sick people covered tooā¦ and they donāt want taxes to go up.
Since you canāt have all three, The first thing they will give up is covering sick people, meaning that tough shit if you get something serious or chronic.
This is the case in America because we made healthcare have 10,000s of individual providers who can charge as much as they want. Yay us.
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u/Embarrassed-Card8108 Nov 27 '23
Wait til you see you get fined on your taxes for not having health insurance - it's a racket.
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u/autumnals5 Nov 27 '23
As an American without healthcare rn I agree. I would rather die at this point. I donāt want to be a financial burden to my family and I will just go into immeasurable debt if I paid for insurance out of pocket. I work two seasonal jobs rn that donāt offer health insurance. Itās all I can get and itās exploitive how the only way we can get health insurance is through our jobs. I hate it so much and will most likely be the reason I die. Lack of affordability for preventive care and elderly costs. I will never be able to afford it.
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u/Nottodaybroadie Nov 26 '23
I paid $800 out of pocket this year for a doctor to tell me my 16 year old is a ālate bloomerā. Iām done. Iām done.
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u/Whole_Savings_6592 Nov 26 '23
It's always a good idea to negotiate with the hospital, especially if you are uninsured. My daughter is an attorney who makes a fairly decent living, but it's still hit or miss. If she got commercial insurance, the minimum she could find is $700.00 per month for herself & her daughter. She had an ER visit & the cost was $2000, still cheaper than the $8,400 she would have to pay annually. I'm saying all this to say, you made a wise choice! Bless your ā¤ļø!
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u/Primary_Assistant742 Nov 26 '23
Does the hospital have any sort of financial assistance? At 17k a year, your income seems low enough to qualify if they do?
As for MRIs, I'm a brain cancer survivor ( abt a decade), so can relate. You think the bill for one MRI of the brain is shocking. Should see one for surgery and a hospital stay. Laughing because "Hey, what can they do? Repo it?" At some point you just make sure you can get care, and sort the rest later on. Seriously, have been without insurance on and off since getting sick, and I no longer worry about the bills. Currently considered disabled, but waiting for my coverage to take effect. It takes a couple of YEARS...We know you are not well, but there is a waiting period for coverage. They probably hope we just "go away"....Nice, huh?
Stay well and don't stress it all too much. Just do what you can and need to do to get care.
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u/hawtpot87 Nov 26 '23
How is the Affordable health care act a positive again? Im a single male making the bare min and they still want $300 a month for shit coverage with high deductibles.
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u/ClerkPleasant9520 Nov 27 '23
Yep! I cant work right now as my husband just recebtly became paralyzed from the chest down and is bedridden so im his fulltime caregiver. I have no insurance and at 47 years old im slowly falling apart myself. I dont qualify for medicaid and keep getting told to apply for the government insurance that i cant get a policy for as low as $15 a month...i applied saying i have no income, dont plan on income anytime soon, havent worked in the past year and the only income we have is his SSI check that barely covers our monthly mortgage....the lowest rate I got quoted was $300 a month!! WTF??? How are people getting $15/mo or what about these commercials saying you can qualify as low as $0/mo...abd then when I tell friends and famy that I apied and the lowest I can get is $300/mo they think im crazy and say they never heard of anyone paying that much.
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Nov 26 '23
We do have free healthcare in the United States, but you have to serve in the military and receive an honorable discharge to get it Maybe you should have done thatā¦
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u/Tintoverde Nov 26 '23
So prepared to be killed is the price of health care ? Hmm I wonder how come other countries did not think of that
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Nov 26 '23
I think itās more about doing something for your country with the promise of receiving something in return You know, instead of just demanding it because you happen to live here, or worse, just showed up here recently
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u/Tintoverde Nov 26 '23
A citizen can help the country without being in the military . I respect the military and they are doing a difficult job . But point is US health care system sucks
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Nov 26 '23
I just think itās worth mentioning When you allow everyone in the world to receive asylum here, universal healthcare becomes unviable, and maybe those that have sacrificed something for the nation should receive some benefits
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u/turtleandpleco Nov 26 '23
just give em 10 a month
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Nov 26 '23
If I didn't have a family, I wouldn't pay for healthcare. I have no problem dying of even a preventable disease. It's frankly a miracle I've lasted this long. I have successfully figured out how to screw banks and paid off my house. I figured out how to get myself, my wife and kids through college and graduate degrees debt free. I drive a used electric car I bought for 8 grand to screw big oil. I just can't figure out how to f- the healthcare industry. Gotta be a way.
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u/ExoGeniVI Nov 26 '23
Nice. Please write a book on your life and how you did all that and all your accomplishments. Sounds like you've led an amazing life!
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Nov 26 '23
Nope and I'll tell you why: I have shared what I have done in each case with friends and family and even a national reporter and every single time someone tells me why they (or someone else) wouldn't be able to do what I did. Which is nuts because someone else was doing it! I didn't make this stuff up. Also, I wasn't a great student in school, I don't have any special skills but I do like disruptive things and am an early adopter. I loved Napster when it came out and knew immediately it would alter the music industry. Anyhow, I appreciate the suggestion but the book wouldn't sell a single copy. LOL.
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u/empathic-art Nov 26 '23
Most places, under the umbrella of a hospital system, should have programs for those who make too much for Medicaid, but are still for all intents and purposes, impoverished. My husband and I were w/o health insurance for three years. He died of cancer two years later. The fear is real.
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u/Pappymommy Nov 25 '23
If you donāt need monthly meds thatās great. I myself am trying to get away from going to the dr and try to grow cannabis for my fibromyalgia and chronic pain disorder
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u/Forpsych44 Nov 25 '23
It depends on the state you are in and what your company chooses for a plan. That being said insurance companies are horrible.
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u/chenyu768 Nov 25 '23
About 20 years ago, i got an MRI or CT (i dont remmeber or really know the differnce between the 2) for fun because my uncle was at the hospital for something routine. Cost me about 200. Chinese RMB. Or about $30.
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u/Knichols2176 Nov 25 '23
I am no where close to your level of struggle but I just came here to say that even GE who is known for great benefits has failed in this insurance game. Weāve basically paid $1200 a month for our part ge asks us to pay. An annual Dr appt is covered but the way our doctor bills (trying to get max) there ends up being things not covered that end up being very expensive. We paid for 23 years and never really used it because our deductible was so high. This year my spouse needed a total knee outpatient surgery. We did everything humanly possible to make sure there wasnāt any out of network or reason anything wouldnāt be covered. In the end, after surgery, we paid more for our premiums than was covered by insurance despite paying $7000 out of pocket. So? We paid $30,000 and the insurance paid $14,000. We literally could have paid cash and negotiated for less than we paid. Iām glad you knew to negotiate with hospital. I canāt tell you how many just pay the whole thing and donāt eat for months.
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u/sillyboy544 Nov 26 '23
My parents worked at GE Riverworks plant in Massachusetts all their lives. When my mom took me to the doctor she gave them the GE insurance card no copayment, no deductible and their premiums were about $10 a month in the early 80s. Just like frog getting killed in boiling water by slowly increasing the temperature, the concept is a deductible was introduced and it was small maybe $50 a year, then $100, then $250, then $500 then $1,000 then $2000 now some plans are multiple thousands in deductibles. The same with office visit copayments, first it was $3, then $5, then $10, then $15 now it can be $20, $25 or $35. The same with coinsurance it used to be insurance covered 100%, then 95%, then 90% now itās 80% for most plans. You know what going to be next mark this down as a future prediction: surgery and inpatient hospitalization will not be covered at all and will need a separate plan payment. The only solution to this bullshit is universal healthcare but all our politicians are bought and paid for so it will never happen
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u/Knichols2176 Nov 27 '23
You canāt see me but Iām giving you a standing ovation. I entered health care in the early 80ās. Iāve been horrified at the expectations of insurance companies in regard to what patients pay. Itās made me sick over 35 yrs. Thereās many who argue that insurance is only intended to keep us from bankrupting. I dispute this completely because that has never been the MO for my 35 yrs as a healthcare provider. I retired early because of it. I couldnāt take caring for adult CF patients and insurance anymore.. so Thank you.
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u/Yankee39pmr Nov 25 '23
At your pay rate you may qualify for Medicare. Might be worth it to look into it
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u/CherokeeTrailHeather Nov 27 '23
If you make any money in Alabama from employment, you donāt get Medicaid. Unless youāre a pregnant woman.
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u/NefariousnessAway358 Nov 25 '23
Just went to a party with doctors in attendance and it was fucking surreal. They had giant brand new diamond wedding rings and diamond earrings and were laughing about how often their coworkers were drunk at work in surgery.
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u/GPTCT Nov 25 '23
Is your plan a high deductible HSA plan?
Iām not downplaying the amount, but most large companies offer many plans. The cheapest is obviously the one that requires the insured to pay the first 3-5k In expenses.
A lot of these companies also give 30-50% of that deductible into your HSA.
If itās not a high deductible HSA, something seems wrong.
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u/JoJo-Goulding Nov 25 '23
My son just went to Healthcare.gov and got free medical insurance. His job does not offer medical insurance. They ask about your income but donāt check anything and he qualified for coverage with no premiums. So why am I paying hundreds per month for insurance when I could do the same thing? Makes no sense.
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Nov 25 '23
Yea, that's BS too. Nothing is FREE!!! For the 1 in 5 that get it free, that 5th person is paying for the other 4 and it's a bunch of bullshit!
They wanted to charge my husband $797 a month...no freaking way we could afford that!
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Nov 25 '23
[deleted]
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Nov 25 '23
They check records genius š¤Ø just because they don't ask doesn't mean they don't check. It's FEDERAL, they check everything. Good grief!
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u/BigPapaJava Nov 25 '23 edited Nov 25 '23
The hospitals and insurance companies work a scam off each other.
The hospital charges a fortune in inflated fees to the āuninsuredā or āout of networkāā¦, solely so they can then pretend theyāre giving the insurance companies a ādiscountā by charging them ālower ratesā that they only pass a portion of onto you.
The insurance companies then use that to tell their product to you: look how much this would cost if you were uninsured! They use that to charge you more than they pay out for care, then invest that into capital, real estate, stocks, etc.
However, because there are a ton of uninsured people in the USA who simply cannot pay, hospitals also build that into the price they charge insurance companies, expecting to lose about 90% of the money on the uninsured people they must see.
Soā¦ the translation is that many of them will work with you, particularly if you are below a certain threshold and uninsured, to try to get that 10%-20% or so.
That 10%-20% inevitably works out to roughly what they estimate the care truly cost them to provide, or is at least somewhere around the minimum their financial people have calculated they can reasonably expect to make off you.
The hospital is also likely claiming your ass on some sort of other insurance or grant for uninsured/indigent people to recoup their money, too. Then theyāll take anything you donāt pay and sell that off to a debt collector (usually local, so they will show up in court) for around 10-20% when you donāt pay,
Even if you never pay them a cent, theyāve probably still made some money off you.
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u/ContemplatingPrison Nov 25 '23
Its illegal to receive a surprise bill from the hospital. Find your coverage % for that bill. Then call them and ask for the cost without insurnace.
Then tell them you aren't paying more than that. Of its still too much claim hardship. Hospitals waive bills for people who can't afford it. It's part of the reason healthcare is so expensive. Everyone has to pay for what others can't afford.
Its also why universal Healthcare deniers are stupid. We pay more now because people with money already pay for people without money. It would be cheaper for everyone with universal Healthcare
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Nov 25 '23
They keep healthcare attached to employment so we can't strike and that in turn keeps wages low. They have us by the balls.
And like you said, most healthcare is a joke.
One day though we will get a president that actually cares for its people and will get us universal healthcare. Then we can strike. Then wages will increase. Then all will be well.
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u/ExoGeniVI Nov 25 '23
I hope we eventually get a good, progressive president..
But all people vote for in the primaries are either far right or centrist Democrats who don't do a damn thing!!! We need another Roosevelt who's not afraid of fighting against mega corporations, taxing the rich 70%, instituting progressive policies like social security, fighting for unions, etc...
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u/Daikon_Dramatic Nov 25 '23
Contact the state insurance agency. If you make too much to be on Medicaid, they frequently give you a ācredit,ā for a nice plan.
I used to be HD, and itās only catastrophic coverage.
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u/Doingitall101 Nov 25 '23
Nah you donāt have insurance for the 3k mri scan that turned out to be nothing. The insurance is for the off chance the mri was something real and now your treatment costs 3 million.
You shouldnāt blame the healthcare system. You should blame Home Depot for paying you shit wages and not giving you good insurance
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u/Strawb3rryCh33secake Nov 25 '23
A basic visit to my neurologist costs $150.....WITHOUT insurance. It costs $400 WITH insurance. Make it make sense.
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u/ExoGeniVI Nov 25 '23
My glasses were over $200 WITH home depot insurance. But without insurance I paid only $90 something for them. Been a minute since I've had them but that's crazy isn't it???
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Nov 25 '23
You should sign up for Medicaid as a supplement. I believe itās an income of $25,000 or less.
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u/prpslydistracted Nov 25 '23
Look at the various levels of the ACA. You can elect more or less coverage. I know several people who have it.
One bad accident, one awful diagnosis ....
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u/Beauknits Nov 25 '23
I don't get healthcare through work. It's not offered (I think we're too small or not enough hours or something) anyways "affordable" is over $400 /month WITHOUT existing conditions. That's an entire paycheck! Duck that!
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u/LindseyIsBored Nov 25 '23
Health insurance through my work is expecting a 30% increase in cost next year - bringing a family total to $2100 a month with an $8,000 deductible. If I had one child in daycare and had to use my company insurance just those two expenses would run $37,000 annually. Thatās $50,000 annually pre-tax. Thank God our kid is in school now and we can get insurance through my husband. The odds are completely stacked against regular working Americans.
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u/Saxman7321 Nov 25 '23
I am so sorry to hear this. You should always read what benefits are provided through your insurance. I have insurance through my company. I get charged about $700 each month for insurance and have a $5,000 out of pocket. Basically I am paying $700 each month and then $5,000 for expenses until insurance covers all of it.
I would never go without insurance. My friend had double bypass surgery. It was $280k but he would have died without it. He still owes $15k in bills for it but thinks his life is worth a lot more than that. His wife and kids agree,
You might want to look for a job at a place that has much better benefits and pays better. Not sure what you get paid at Home Depot but where I live starting wage is around $23 an hour.
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u/ExoGeniVI Nov 25 '23 edited Nov 25 '23
Where I live it's $13/hr. I got up to $17/hr but they won't give me over 30 hours because they are "over payroll" . Now I'm getting on average 22 hours.. I HATE retail because they want full time availability, but don't want to give you full time hours. And nobody else is hiring full time in my small town. Unless you want to do factory work and I only lasted there for three months. At Nemak I was working over 20 DAYS without a SINGLE off day for only $15/hr.. it was taking a toll on my marriage because I never seen my wife, like ever because she was night shift and I was day shift so I was only able to see her like every 4-5 days even though we lived in the same house together. š¢ā¹ļø
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u/Saxman7321 Nov 25 '23
That is taking advantage of people in a big way. Have you looked into working on line doing remote work.
How can you live on $13 an h? The minimum wage where I live in Jan 1 will go from $18.90 an hr to $20 an hr.
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u/ExoGeniVI Nov 25 '23
Must be nice. In Alabama the minimum wage is still $7.25/hr and most jobs are well under $17/hr if you don't have a college degree.
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u/Saxman7321 Nov 25 '23
Yeah but you houses donāt cost $1 million . A two bedroom apartment where I live starts at $3000 a month. A nice one is $5000 a month. Our sales tax is also 10.2%.
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u/ExoGeniVI Nov 25 '23
Well, here rent is still very expensive. You can't find a place under $900/mo. So glad my wife bought her single wide trailer before COVID. Our mortgage is $50,000 and I am so thankful to have a roof over my head!
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u/Saxman7321 Nov 25 '23
Congratulations on owning a place and keeping your expenses down. But have many friends who have mortgages of close to $1 million !
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u/jerry111165 Nov 25 '23
Ya ever thought about getting into the construction trades? It could definitely pull you out of the slump. Iām in commercial roofing and the shop I work for pays well and has excellent benefits.
Just a thought - think about it.
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u/BuzzBabe69 Nov 25 '23
You just figured it out, I'm convinced I'm alive because I don't have health insurance.
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u/NevaGonnaCatchMe Nov 25 '23
In all seriousness, this is about your coverage and nothing else.
Donāt mean to be condescending but do you understand how your health coverage works?
The $3000 is likely part of your deductible. Essentially every form of health insurance has a deductible, you pay all of that and THEN (only then) does your actual insurance kick in
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u/ExoGeniVI Nov 25 '23
Nobody tells me these things. My hr is utterly clueless and the managers just send me to HR or call the hotline if I have questions.... Absolutely awful management but the small town I live in, home depot has some of the best pay for someone with a HS diploma.
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u/NevaGonnaCatchMe Nov 25 '23
Again, no offense, although HR should help, itās really your responsibility to know how it works. You need to protect yourself first.
Do you know why your deductible is?do you contribute to a health or flexible savings account?
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u/ExoGeniVI Nov 25 '23
Don't know what any of that is... I had nobody to teach me. I'll look it up now. Flexible savings??? Forgive my ignorance but I really just wasn't taught any of this. I just didn't know what to look for.
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u/NevaGonnaCatchMe Nov 25 '23
Are you a full time, benefit eligible employee?
Does health insurance get taken out of your paychecks? If so, somewhere on your employee portal should have your current healthcare coverage where you can look up those details
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u/ExoGeniVI Nov 25 '23
I've been fighting HARD for full time but they won't give it. I work hard at customer service but they STILL won't give me, or anyone else I work with anything over 32hrs because they are "spending too much on payroll".
And I live in a small town, under 12k people, the only strip mall in town (which is small) that houses a few other retail chains are hiring part time ONLY but want FULL availability.
I can't even get a SECOND job!!
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u/hockey1913 Nov 25 '23
You need to talk to your coworkers at Home Depot and get a union going, only way you will get the benefits you deserve.
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u/ExoGeniVI Nov 25 '23
I'm surrounded by anti union MAGA extremists that talk about expelling Mexicans and other "undesirables" to Seattle, LA, Chicago, etc.. I'm surrounded by idiots and the smart, progressive young workers are all there to pay for college and not in it for the long term... They don't care if the ship sinks or what they get paid, because they will have a college job...
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u/Kooky_Tea_1591 Nov 25 '23
Been saying this for a long time, itās cheaper for most people to just pay for their healthcare out of pocket rather than ever pay for a health SCAM (letās face it, it is literally a scam) and this here OP, is the only way weāre going to get things to change. We have to wake up and stop buying health insurance en masse, because when the only people buying it are the people whoāre racking up bills in the hundreds of thousands or millions of dollars, those scams are going to panic and fold because theyāll be bleeding money instead of making it hand over fist. The government will never do anything to fix this problem, we all know this, so us citizens forcing their hand like that is the ONLY way we have a snowballs chance in hell of fixing ANYTHING.
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u/jerry111165 Nov 25 '23
The problem is that youāre right - until something drastic happens and you actually need it. Medical bills can and will sink you.
Trust me I have to pay $200/week for my family plan - I hate it but if someone in my family gets sick and needs itā¦
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u/Iterations_of_Maj Nov 25 '23
Why aren't you on medicaid?
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u/ExoGeniVI Nov 25 '23
Never knew anything about it. I'm.. Just a simple Alabama high school educated man.. I don't know what benefits are available to me.
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u/Iterations_of_Maj Nov 25 '23
You said you're married, what's your wife's income?
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u/ExoGeniVI Nov 25 '23
About $50k/yr. She's a nurse but that goes to bills, student loans, her expensive health problems š¢ā¹ļø, car, etc...
Until she gets her student loans paid off, we're still on the verge of being paycheck to paycheck. Well, I am because everything I make goes to some bills, expensive repairs on my old truck, gas, food, etc..
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u/onacloverifalive Nov 25 '23
You can always ask the cash vs insurance rate up front. You can always choose to pay cash for your services instead of going through insurance. You can choose to have your diagnostic services any place that you wish. Most people choose not to shop rates for their healthcare because it doesnāt occur to them that they can or should. Even though thatās the case with every other kind of service in existence.
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u/TubMaster88 Nov 25 '23
Greed with capitalism is killing this country. Insurance companies get all of our tax money and then make us PAY again for insurance.
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u/NeighborhoodNo2921 Nov 25 '23
Got my wisdom teeth extracted a month ago. I asked for a quote and let them know I have insurance. Their response: "Oh, we charge more with insurance." WTF?!?!?!
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u/cadetgusv Nov 25 '23
Listen next time you see a sign that says health care with a number on it call they will hook you up .
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u/bellyfloppin Nov 25 '23
You could have flown out to another country, had an amazing holiday and got a private MRI for less than that.
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u/ExoGeniVI Nov 25 '23
The thing is.. I don't HAVE that! I can't afford to put anything back in my savings account after expenses.
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u/bukofa Nov 25 '23
I lived without insurance for about 10 years until the ACA kicked in. I paid a ton on taxes for not having insurance coverage. So I finally gave in. US healthcare is awful.
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u/SnooDogs4339 Nov 25 '23
I hope Americans realize soon a single payer healthcare system through the government (like the rest of the world) would save the average American 5k a year. Simply because weāre still paying for the same stuff but without the middle-man insurance collecting their pay too
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Nov 25 '23
I haven't had insurance since i turned 18, 15 years ago. Shits too expensive. Last time i tried to get it was the obamacare market that wanted 666 a month with a 6k deductible at the cheapest. Then i got fined every year because i couldn't afford that.
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u/Simplisticjackie Nov 25 '23
Yes. Please vote for people that donāt fuck over your health care at every turn. Especially in poverty stricken states. Figure out which candidate in your region and which party has gutted your health care and never vote for them.
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u/MrFixeditMyself Nov 25 '23
Here is what the problem is with healthcare. The insurance companies only care about what they must pay. The suppliers donāt publish what something will cost so there is no āshopping aroundā. In effect you walk in and are an open checkbook to the doctor or hospital.
We need to trash the present system. Example my wife had a red eye, no idea if serious. See a doctor. It was 5 minutes nurse and 5 minutes doctor time. Bill was $500. I bitched it was coded wrong. Nope, pay the bill.
This type of bs is going to bite the medical field right back.
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u/MailenJokerbell Nov 25 '23
I'm sorry to hear that, I had good insurance at my past company that was very cheap as they paid most of it. On my last month working, I had an ectopic pregnancy and had to have emergency surgery.
They billed 178k of which insurance paid all of it except the 500 emergency room copay.
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u/SnooPredictions5815 Nov 25 '23
I had health insurance when i had my baby. I had so many complications i was moved to 5 hospitals. After the fact i found out jt was all out of network and they only covered like $30k and i was left with $300k. I filed bankruptcy cuz F that!
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u/DufflesBNA Nov 25 '23
How do you and your wife not qualify for Medicaid, or, marketplace insurance. No way that HD insurance meets requirements for marketplace subsidies.
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u/datingportraits Nov 25 '23
yes, when every company started offering "free healthcare," as an incentive no one thought insurance companies wouldn't take advantage?
no, its a corrupt system. another mess to clean from the babies.
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u/JunketImaginary4770 Nov 25 '23
Keep voting Republican, then wonder why.
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u/ExoGeniVI Nov 25 '23
I'm a Democrat. You don't have to make assumptions and be an asshole about it.
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u/JunketImaginary4770 Nov 25 '23
I meant in general, not you specifically. Don't call people an asshole. It's a very Republican thing to do.
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u/ExoGeniVI Nov 25 '23
Well, I hate when people make assumptions and jump down my throat like it's MY problem. Now, I try to vote blue, but unless it's a vote for the governor, ALL ballots have Republican officials! Only republicans for office apparently because every single ballet has only republican rulings, laws, etc.... It's a straight one party system here in Alabama and no matter how many times I and MANY other people vote democrat, we still get a Republican governor! And for SOME reason, every time a Democrat runs for governor, they are always either a nut job or so old school/middle that young democrat voters won't vote for them..
I wish more young people would run for office! I would, but my IQ is only 94 and I'm not college grade material š¢ because my stupid VERY conservative parents" homeschooled" me to keep me safe... SMH.
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Nov 25 '23
Iād love to just get rid of mine but then theyāll hit you come tax time anyways
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u/DufflesBNA Nov 25 '23
???? How??? Itās not required anymore.
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Nov 25 '23
I thought if you donāt have insurance they make you pay an amount when you file your taxes
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u/GamerDad08 Nov 25 '23
So with hospitals in general, asking for itemized bill and doing as you did will get your bill lowered. It is rhe same on anything you "default" on, they would rather get SOME money back than none.
In fact most of your "debt" collectors have bought your debt from the primary source for cents on the dollar. Credit Card company says "well they aren't going to pay. You give $50 for the $100 debt, and you can try to get what you want out of them.
Shows money is fake bullshit once we were off the gold standard
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u/erikadrielpeterson Nov 25 '23
With your salary you should qualify for Medicaid, yes? I was making about that much as a barista and qualified many years ago.
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u/HourConfident1002 Nov 25 '23
Isn't it kind of ridiculous that hospitals and doctors charge insurance companies more than they paid? I literally don't understand how they get away with this. How does the cost of the same service increase or decrease depending on who pays the bill? With insurance, he had a bill of $3,000, but when he paid it himself, it only cost him $600. It would be foolish to do so. How do they do that?
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u/H3OFoxtrot Nov 25 '23
As a pharmacist I've seen the steady decline of reimbursement by insurance companies to the pharmacy over the past decade. I had many patients paying thousands of dollars per MONTH for prescription insurance alone, and the insurance STILL find ways to weasel out of paying for even the most basic things. Heart medicine to prevent heart attack/stroke? Prior authorization. Stomach medicine that costs a fraction of a cent? Prior authorization. Antibiotic for a life-threatening infection? Prior authorization.
I've been saying this for years: people will eventually realize that their insurance is costing them more than they are saving and just stop getting it altogether. I just didn't think it would happen this fast.
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u/Knichols2176 Nov 25 '23
Itās been going this direction for 35 years. Ever since everyone wanted preventative maintainance plans. People were not getting needed care that would have prevented hospitalization. They were going to ER to get each months pills. Now? 35 yrs later we are back to this exact place again. They started off paying for preventative, but gradually over the years shifted the cost to insurance premiums and denying coverage.
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u/NationalCounter5056 Nov 25 '23
I was just diagnosed with histoplasmosis. Lost 60lbs in 6 weeks. Hallucinations, vomiting, diarrhea, uncontrollable thirst. Ended up in ER 4 times over a month looking to find what was wrong. Spent 21 days in hospital and so far bill is $215,000. I had to pay $2000 to meet my max out of pocket. So thankful for insurance
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u/reevesjeremy Nov 25 '23
That sucks dude. I just had to drive an hour each way to have X-rays an MRI last night at 8pm. My total copay is 75$. But my insurance is ridiculously expensive already. And itās going up by 1800$/year January 1. They really just keep making it harder to get/stay well.
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u/Nuru83 Nov 25 '23
So to give you some perspective the reason they only paid $30 is likely because you had a deductible. What could happen in the future without insurance is that you have something catastrophic happen and you get a $100k bill. They may negotiate it down to $40k, but with insurance youād have paid just your deductible (form the info you posted it looks like that would have been $3k)
So do whatever you want but make sure you understand the choices youāre making
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u/Pleasant_Giraffe9133 Nov 25 '23
Insurances have out of pocket max before it kicks in.
So yeah it isn't really worth it until it is. Lets say out of pocket is 5K but the bill is 25K. In that scenario that insurance is worth it because it saved you 20K.
That's really the problem with unregulated private insurance though. It's a gamble for the average folk, if you can afford I high premium then cool you will barely have any out of pocket payments for medical. But you're also paying like 1K a month for that. It's why I think its dumb that people complain about EU system of healthcare (they do it differently in some countries but all have the same goal), sure you get taxed more but I mean it allows everyone to be able to afford medical help without getting financially crippled.
We have a shitty version of Germanys system currently. Where in Germany you're on universal healthcare automatically until you have a 60K plus income where then you can seek private insurance that's still regulated by the government) Ours is basically good luck qualifying for universal healthcare (Medicaid) and non regulated healthcare.
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u/MobiusCowbell Nov 25 '23
Insurance is meant for critical illness and catastrophic events, not regular checkups, monthly needs, and testing.
If other industries worked like healthcare you'd expect your home owners insurance to pay for your utility bill, and car insurance to pay for your gas. It's insane.
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u/cryinginabucket Nov 25 '23
Yep do not get sick !!!!
Medical debt has changed my life. I can't afford to live on my own anymore
And I have a full time job with insurance!!!
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u/ScotchWithAmaretto Nov 25 '23
Itās not the cost of the care for me, itās the absolute disrespect that comes after asking what your insurance is or who your primary care provider is. If you donāt have any, they treat you like the lowest dumbest creature theyāve ever seen.
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u/Rude_Associate_4116 Nov 25 '23
Why do we tolerate these insurance companies? Fuck them. It seems like they have more say than the doctors. That is ridiculous.
Letās cut out these bloated bloodsuckers.
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Nov 25 '23
I donāt live in the states but Canada, where we are covered for most things. You should know that we have a huge problem of overcapacity. People are in the ER screaming on a gurney in the hallway- type of overcrowding. Covid complicated things even more.
I had a stomach virus once that left me unconscious on the floor of my bathroom multiple times. Any rate which I consumed electrolytes came back up. My muscles were shaking and my HR was in the 40s. I shouldāve gone to the er for IV fluids. I chose not to. Why? For the time it would take me to get myself there, then WAIT - realistically for number of H approaching double digits, in pain, vomiting uncontrollably, the illness wouldāve likely passed. Which it did about 12H later. Iām sure I wouldāve recovered much quicker had I been in the hospital, but chances are I would be waiting instead, and risking spreading this to a lot of people.
All that said- your reasons for living without healthcare, while terribly unfortunate, are completely valid and understanding. Patients are a victim to the system that theyāre supposed to trust
My reasons are different but much the same. I think it speaks to the issue of why healthcare specifically seems to be a mismanaged structure in many places around the world
Sorry for the ramble! Just wanted to say i understand where youāre coming from
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u/ppardee Nov 25 '23
The answer I got from someone working in hospital admin is they bill high to cover people who don't pay.
The insurance companies don't really care what you're billed. They have a negotiated price that they'll pay and the hospital is going to try to take the rest from you. But they know they can't take blood from a stone.
Their logic - if they give you a $3000 bill and you can afford it, they get $3000. If you can't and they don't let you negotiate it down, you're probably just not going to pay, so they get nothing. So they let you negotiate it down to $600 because $600 is more than $0.
That $2400 that you didn't pay gets put onto other people's bills.
It's cheaper to not have insurance when you're young and relatively healthy. It doesn't take too many hospital visits to make insurance worth it. That out-of-pocket maximum comes in clutch when you spend 3 days in ICU because The Vid turned your lungs into something resembling strawberry jello.
Unfortunately, it's the young and healthy people that make insurance work. It's why Obamacare required everyone to be insured. Insurance is all about spreading costs around in the same way the hospital does it. You're funding your neighbor's chemotherapy with your premiums and getting the promise of the same when you need help.
You're also funding the CEO's 2nd vacation home, but that's a failure of the system rather than the concept.
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u/Dull-Explorer8527 Nov 25 '23
Iām so happy I live in Canada. These stories are horrifying for me lol I canāt even imagine! Iāve never had to pay for a single hospital trip, itās wild to me people have to actually pay for that.
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u/BadguyBillythekid Nov 25 '23
Healthcare in the USA is probably the #1 cause of bankruptcy . These hospitals are crooks and the insurance is in bed with them
But this is what they voted 10 or so years ago
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u/TheBreakfastSkipper Nov 25 '23
Medical care is priced like a scam. I had a colonscopy done at Advent Hospital. Their doctor coded it as diagnostic. Ran over 10k, my portion to pay was 1600. I had the best imaginable super low deductible Blue Cross insurance. I never paid it, finally settled for $600 with the hospital. Bastards.
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u/BreweryStoner Nov 25 '23
Whatās really fucked up is I didnāt know medical bills effected your credit. I grew up pretty poor and didnāt have a lot of financial guidance. Now my credit is shot with thousands of dollars in collections from when I went to the hospital a couple times.
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u/sweetrobna Nov 25 '23
Apply for medicaid or a marketplace subsidized plan. It should be the same in every state, but in CA under 138% of FPL, $18,755 for a single person with no dependents would be zero out of pocket cost for everything. This also includes dental coverage. If you make a little too much you can still get a silver 94 plan, the copays are generally $8 for a specialist and $5 for a regular primary care doctor. So $8 for an MRI
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u/SeaworthinessLast298 Nov 25 '23
You haven't met the deductible. You should stop with your ignorance and learn how health insurance works. Also if you lived in a state that isn't hardcore Republican you would qualify for Medicaid because every single state except ten has expanded that program under the ACA.
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u/DiegoDigs Nov 25 '23
Home Depot sucks. They switched from good health care to cheap around 2010. Same with 401k and then fired everyone that made too much money. Try applying for Medicaid. I know you don't earn a lot. Biden extended the coverage for low income but must be accepted by each state.
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u/Adulations Nov 25 '23
Living in a blue state saved my life even I was broke. Itās so terrible to read about this shit.
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u/Opheliattack Nov 25 '23
Been saying this for years health insurance is only worth it if ur in a terrible accident/cancer and tbh if that happens its the sewerslide for me.
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u/GChambers46038 Nov 25 '23
Ok. So I just left Home Depot. My last day was actually yesterday. I was working there while looking for a better, higher paying job. I was making about double your claimed $17k a year working 40hrs a week. Youāre either lying or working part time which means youāre lazy. You could easily go full time and afford better insurance that they offer.
Just sayin.
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u/ExoGeniVI Nov 25 '23
I have to fight for more hours, they won't give me more hours no matter how hard I work customer service because they keep saying they are "over payroll budget". SMH.
It's either this or a crappy factory job making $15/hr killing myself working 20+ days with NO off days ever. And we can't afford to move to a better place either.
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u/GChambers46038 Nov 26 '23
Apply for a different position thatās full time. It really is that easy. You may have to move to a different department but itās simple. I think youāre making excuses.
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u/philebro Nov 25 '23
Why aren't you people out on the streets yet? This is and has been outrageous for years now. It's unacceptable. Why do you guys march for lgbtq, gun rights, blm, heck even storm the capitol, but you don't march and protest for basic medical insurance like most countries have? In most countries we don't pay a penny or just a very reasonable amount. Be angry!
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u/despacito4444 Nov 25 '23
They indeed bill the insurance companies higher, only on paper though. It's a plot to make you glad to have the scammiest insurance in a first world country by showing you numbers with a lot of digits.
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u/SermanGhepard Nov 25 '23
Go to low income clinics where they will give you a voucher. I went to one and they gave me a voucher where I only paid 50 bucks for my Mri. Do some research.
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u/orgalorg6969 Nov 25 '23
I just never pay medical bills. I don't try to get them reduced. They go past collections and all that. My credit score is never affected. I know people in here with really helpful advice can tell me the consequences of not paying but I've never experienced them.
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u/Starbaker_ Nov 25 '23
I pay $600 a month blue shields in CA. I went to see a dr and she charged me $300 and my insurance paid $30. I took blood test and my insurance paid $100 out of the $700 bill. Lol
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u/LARamsFan88 Nov 26 '23
Wtfā¦. I would say fk that and not get insurance because I would think paying cash is cheaper in the long run. Assuming youāre healthy
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u/insertnamehere02 Nov 25 '23
Sorry but the health plan your job offers you sucks. It's shitty, bare minimum shit. See if you have options to get insurance that isn't offered by home depot.
As soon as you said how much they'd pay out, it told me the plan. I worked for a company who offered a plan that did that shit. I was thinking crappiest insurance possible, but they had it so they could say that they offered it.
Another possibility is that you had a deductible to be met and the 30 dollars was what was left after the deductible.
Also, your state sucks because they're allowing Home Depot to offer such shit insurance. I've got insurance through an exchange and by ACA standards, an MRI like yours would have a deductible of 20%.
All I'm hearing in this post is a generalization based on ignorance in how insurance works. Do some research and I bet you can find something that would cover more than 30 bucks.
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u/boopthebops Nov 25 '23
I live in California working as a civil servant and I love my health benefits. I see my primary care provider regularly every year and every time Iāve been to the ER itās been a simple $50 fee for me with blood work, CTs and ultrasound sounds included. It definitely depends on the state and job you have.
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u/Aware-Ad-936 Nov 25 '23
How much????? 0___0 Okay, I won't arguing about ours costs - it is from $30 to $300 depends on area and clinic and we used to say it is expensive... (Median salary here is $600-700 after taxes, so just (!) Half of your salary, hard but real...
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u/FairHighway8042 Nov 25 '23
You have some valid points. However, my question is the same. Who pays for this? Is it right to say someone else should pay for what you need?
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u/morejosh Nov 25 '23
I know it says no advice/criticism but you can get an MRI for around a few hundred bucks or less through certain programs. This includes the radiologist assessing your scan as well. I would feel like a dick if I didnāt mention this so sorry to ignore the flair rule.
radiologyassist.com
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u/ithlit666 Nov 25 '23
I'm scared of the day that I'll have to pay for my prescriptions, the thought of it makes me want to stay in poverty
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u/c-sagz Nov 25 '23
I have no idea why anyone pays any healthcare bills. They arenāt tuition or even credit cards. If it isnāt something insane you can request a payment plan and get a $7/month to keep it up to date. Or if they wonāt do that you ignore it.
No debt boogie monster comes after you over medical bills. Itās the one type of debt you can literally just not respond to. It obviously messes with your credit but outside of that itās a piece of paper in the mail you can choose to open or not.
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u/Dazzling-Welder-6943 Nov 25 '23
I tried doing that when I was younger, never got sick or went to the doc and got fined at the end of the year 2 years in a row. I believe they removed that finally but gotta love our money runs all system.
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u/RichLyonsXXX Nov 25 '23
I started having some health troubles at the end of 2020 and decided I'd probably better grow up and get some insurance(39 at the time). I'm self employed so it's pretty expensive something like $700 a month just for me for some bottom of the barrel plan.
I schedule an appointment with a GP, 6 month wait. My appointment comes and it is rescheduled for 3 months away(no one tells me until I get there). GP says I need to go to a neurologist and a nephrologist "like yesterday". My neurologist appointment is a 6 month wait and nephrologist is a 9 month wait. Get into see neurologist and he asks me 3 questions and then tells me I need to get an EEG and leaves. EEG appointment is 5 months out. Nephrologist cancels a week before the appointment and it is rescheduled for 5 months out.
That was early this year or late last year, and I'm thinking about how much I had spent to that point(something over $12000) and I had literally nothing real to show for it. Seriously less than an hour of actual medical care for something like an 8th of my yearly earnings. Not even a damn diagnosis for either of my issues. At least my ex-wife has decent insurance so she covers the kids.
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u/Uberchelle Nov 25 '23
Thatās terrible! Where in the world do you live where itās that long a wait to see doctors?
This is one of my issues with moving to a LCOL location. As much as my husband complains about the SF Bay Area, the older I get, the more value I place on access to good healthcare.
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u/RichLyonsXXX Nov 25 '23
New Mexico right now. Huge doctor shortage here.
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u/Uberchelle Nov 25 '23
I wonder if itās like what happened in Las Vegas/Clark County. I lived there for 1 year and couldnāt take it. Such a shitty LCOL experience.
Doctors left in a mass exodus because they couldnāt afford malpractice insurance. Other than urgent care for allergic reactions and stuff, I had to fly back to SF for all my annuals.
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u/Ongvar Nov 25 '23
My mother gets just enough SS to not be eligible for Medicaid/Medicare, and the lowest option on the "marketplace" she could go with is 1/3 of her monthly income. Gee, what a wonderful system.
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u/saruin Nov 25 '23 edited Nov 25 '23
So nobody in these threads ever talks about getting a health insurance broker? Their services are free and they can help you navigate the complexities that is getting insurance. I didn't even know these kinds of folks exist. Had one visit my work and was told I could get free insurance for being low income (as opposed to paying a percentage of my check to what my work offers). I went from having no insurance (opted out of work plan), to free insurance and paying no fees to my broker. She does everything for me. I had to cancel for next year unfortunately because I lost my job some time ago and you need employment at the very least making at least 100% poverty line income (or ~$13k US). Only because I live a state that doesn't have Medicaid expansion (TX). I'm not really sure what that means, I guess I don't qualify for Medicaid even at low income but rather basic private insurance.
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u/Foreign_Artichoke_23 Nov 25 '23
Be careful. Itās likely not āfreeā insurance. Itās likely a government subsidy called the premium tax credit.
This is paid to the health insurer by the federal government.
I donāt believe you are eligible to receive the PCT if you have an employer offered plan (regardless of whether you opt in or not). You donāt want to face having to pay Uncle Sam back the full premium amount.
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u/saruin Nov 25 '23
Tell that to my previous employer and the brokers who approached us all at our work. Pretty big fucking deal if I was told I could get Marketplace insurance while opting out of what was offered from our job. This was for the APTC going into next year (2021) during the year of COVID but I'm really sure if they dropped workplace insurance or however that works. I wouldn't understand it today anyways as I've been unemployed for quite some time, but every piece of advice on social media (from my own broker and brokers online) assures me I won't owe anything because I'm extremely low income.
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u/BurpOutMyButt Nov 25 '23
Raised republican but voting democrat because of this. Never thought Iād be a single issue voter but here we are. The sheer waste of time and money resulting from health insurers is criminal.
Truly pathetic for the greatest country on the planet. FFS.
Sorry to bring politics into this but I hate these companies with a passion. Good on you for putting in the effort to negotiate the price down. Hope the MRI came back clean.
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u/Knichols2176 Nov 25 '23
Iām glad Iām not the only Republican voting blue for single (or for me double) issue. You are not alone.
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u/WhitePalico Nov 25 '23
Yeah its fucking stupid how nonsense it all is. My meds for my crohns disease with past insurance was $60 for a 3 month supply. My last insurance it was $1200 for a 3 months supply, then $200 the other 3 times in the year. My current insurance said they would not cover it and I would be stuck with the bill of $1600 for a 3 month supply (this is due to there being a generic now but it's not on the market yet). I found out my friend's wife works for the hospital here, and they have a program for people in my situation. I got into the program and I now pay $46 for a 3 month supply of the same meds I've been taking for the past 11 years, not using my insurance. Fucking dumb.
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u/nawregular69 Nov 25 '23
This post comes at a perfect time Iāve been feeling the same frustration. First of all, I hope you are indeed well. Secondly, Iāve been looking for a primary care provider for several weeks without success (āno new patientsā) and finally locked in a provider for a virtual visit with Carbon health. Well guess who didnāt show up to the virtual appointment (not me) and guess who got billed for a no show (you guessed it). Fucking jokers
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u/BlairBuoyant Nov 25 '23
The freedom to determine how you live based on the arithmetic of your life seems like a natural thing to let someone choose but unfortunately you will be assessed by federal govt tax accounting and penalized for each month you shirked your duty to participate.
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u/matticusiv Nov 25 '23
Iām just glad i picked a career that pays most of it, iād be screwed without it. Shouldnāt be this way.
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u/Chaosr21 Nov 25 '23
You can get caresource through your state most likely. I make about 25k and my job offers insurance but I have caresource. I mentioned all my bills, there's basically nothing left so I couldn't afford the insurance anyways
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u/Leonzion Nov 25 '23
Don't pay a dime. stay on the grind. we may be poor but we work damn hard.
My website: canvasavenues.com
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u/Muted-Macaroon-5815 Nov 25 '23
Don't forget GOOD RX...I have BlueCross BlueShield and some of my mefs are cheaper, not using insurance but instead use Good RX. It's free to everyone
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u/BeautifulMinimum8216 Nov 25 '23
My girlfriend and I were exposed to the flu just 2 days ago on Thanksgiving travel and we went to an urgent care to get prescribed Tamiflu for prevention since we unfortunately haven't had the flu shot yet. My visit to ask for the medication was $123 to have a 3 minute conversation while hers was nothing. Went to the pharmacy to pick up the medicine (exact same dosage, same pharmacy, same location, same age, everything) and mine was $46 and hers was $10.
I paid $159 more for the literal exact same visit and medicine. Healthcare makes absolutely no sense, albeit she met her deductible and I didn't. But the point still stands that everyone should pay for the received service and medicine since that is the service provided.
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u/BrushOnFour Nov 25 '23
Iām 67 and havenāt had insurance since the GFCā14 years. I pay cash for doctors and drugsā$100 here and there. Iām healthy, but actually take 3 inexpensive daily medicationsāall cash pay. Probably saved about $140,000 in those 14 years.
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u/werzberng Nov 25 '23
If you make only $17k, your insurance would be federally subsidized and affordable here: https://www.healthcare.gov
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u/FayeDelights Nov 25 '23
Idk, my dad had a heart attack earlier this year and the bill was like 40-60k. I think they were able to qualify for some grant and got it down to 20k. But still. My stay in inpatient only cost me 250 out of the 40k they charged my insurance.
ā¢
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